Illegal sites damaging boxing .

[War Room]

I've read a few times by people in the industry that illegal internet streams are damaging the sport. Personally would never view these in a sport I love so much. Fighters get a big cut and less money in the pot means less likelihood of the top fights being made as per news reports. Deontay Wilder sums it up best :

"Fighters risk their lives for other’s entertainment,” and that they deserve big pay-per-view numbers that equal big paydays. “Stop f*****g stealing pay-per-views,” is Wilder’s message to the fans.

From another source

"Sports executive Stephen Espinoza says big fights aren’t getting made because of the PPV piracy from fans, who choose not to purchase pay-per-view fights and turn to illegal avenues to see the bouts for free."

That is a load of dogwank mate. They're pointing fingers to get the blame off themselves and the climate. People have been stealing the signal since Tyson era, I know because I had a black box and everybody I knew had a black box. Big Tyson parties on a black box, 30 people in the house stealing it all on one signal. I can count on one hand the PPV's I've bought in the last 30 years.

Lower PPV prices so that the worker can afford them and there will be big decline in pirate streams, high prices is what create and propagates piracy, if PPV was say $20 pretty much all fans would buy the smooth 4k PPV.

100% correct. Floyd set the bar high on ppv pricing and when he left other people jumped on that figure and wow isn't it odd that ppvb's started declining around that time.

The price is too high and nobody is doing anything to stop the streams.

There are a lot of things that can be done to stop streams, some are illegal tactics, some are not...but it can be done without a paper trail. There are maybe a dozen sites out there hosting streams, it's not as many as some people think.

DDoS, digital fingerprints, all kinds of warfare tactics available.

[FinitoxDinamita]

People in the industry feel that way? lol *** them..

Tryna rob me... Naw Imma rob you

[Ganondorf]

I pretty much quit buying PPV some years back. I will buy one every now and then if I’m interested enough. I bought Benavidez and Plant.

Other than that I just cannot pay for fights such as Davis vs Hector. I usually end up streaming them.

[QballLobo]

It’s a combination of fights that have no business being on PPV and the price.
$80 for Tank/Garcia is not a mass market price. You want there to be an impulse buy element for the casuals who don’t hear about a fight until the week of. A lot of casuals May see the trash talk then the see the price and say they will catch it later on YouTube or seek out an illegal stream.
Ive said it here for a while that HBO getting out of boxing really hurt. They could build up guys names before they made the PPV jump and and have an audience who already knew them to get word of mouth buzz.
Now a young fighter who shows promise is thrown on PPV and does bad numbers which lowers their stock when it comes time to make a big matchup.

[takenotes]

We went from having great fights on HBO and Showtime and the super fights being on PPV to every single fight, regardless of quality, is on PPV. On top of that the PPV's went from $40 to $80+. So yeah, that is why I will continue to use my service for watching all my sports.

[takenotes]

That is a load of dogwank mate. They're pointing fingers to get the blame off themselves and the climate. People have been stealing the signal since Tyson era, I know because I had a black box and everybody I knew had a black box. Big Tyson parties on a black box, 30 people in the house stealing it all on one signal. I can count on one hand the PPV's I've bought in the last 30 years.



100% correct. Floyd set the bar high on ppv pricing and when he left other people jumped on that figure and wow isn't it odd that ppvb's started declining around that time.

The price is too high and nobody is doing anything to stop the streams.

There are a lot of things that can be done to stop streams, some are illegal tactics, some are not...but it can be done without a paper trail. There are maybe a dozen sites out there hosting streams, it's not as many as some people think.

DDoS, digital fingerprints, all kinds of warfare tactics available.

This. I had the black box and everyone I knew had it. I do not think I ever bought a PPV (although I was too young back when Tyson was fighting)

[elfag]

No boxing promoters have been overpaying the top 2% of fighters, underpaying the rest and over charging the fans.


Crawford makes like 10 million dollars to fight a lithiuanian cabbage farmer but if he were to fight spence he only gets 15-20 million. One fight he has ZERO RISK. He could fight TWO BUMS back to back and make more than fighting Spence..... so the spence fight never happens.... the fans lose, all because the promoters are idiots.


Look at the idiots at DAZN, started it off real cheap, had a lot of investor money rolling in, wasted it all, gave GGG like $100 million dollars... the guy has no fans, he doesnt sell fights, why were they paying him $20 million a fight to fight a Steve Rolls... then when they ran out of money they tripled their rates and now charge normal PPV rates..... then they act shocked that people just stream fights.


DAZN expected the FANS to bail them out for THEIR bad business decisions of the past. Now the same boxing management is out there placing the blame on the state of boxing on the fans when THEY are the ones who made the bad decisions. They take no responsibility.

[elfag]

""Fighters risk their lives for other’s entertainment,” and that they deserve big pay-per-view numbers that equal big paydays. “Stop f*****g stealing pay-per-views,” is Wilder’s "


What about the guys fighting for peanuts on his undercard? they have no health insurance, no pension, I dont see him donating some of his purse to them?

[JakeTheBoxer]

Illegal sites are supporting boxing.

Pro boxing is not very popular sport. The most of fans will not pay to watch it.

And in many countries there is actually no pro boxing in mainstream media. So fans must use pirate sites to watch it.

[j0zef]

PPVs are much too common and overpriced. When boxing was thriving, you had boxers fighting 3+ times a year, and if a fight was on PPV, it was actually a legitimate HOF battle. Here, look at the list of the PPVs in the 90s or early 2000s on Wikipedia.

Guess what? Every SINGLE one of these fights had a HOF caliber fighter. Every. Single. One.
Do you know what we get now on PPV? Caleb Plant vs. Benavidez. I love David, but he hasn't done crap. Plant has done even less. Next we have Tank "ducked everyone" Davis vs. Ryan "hasn't fought a top20 contender" Garcia. After that? We get Canelo's tune up vs. Ryder.


The other part is that the undercards nowadays are downright terrible. The only folks that tried to put on a good card are PBC, Hearn and K2/Golovkin. Canelo in particular deserves all the hate in the world - considering how much his purses are, he can't share 500k-1m with a couple of dudes to get a good boxing card? It's hard to sell boxing to casual fans. Unless they absolutely need to see a specific fighter, they're gonna watch 2.5 hours of no names on undercards and then be treated to a boring snoozefest of a main event.

Hearn always put on a few exciting prospect against seasoned vets on his cards, or some well matched, accomplished but not quite world class fights. PBC cards generally have 2 cards worth watching. Wilder vs. Helenius main event had Plant vs. Dirrell. Charlo brothers often fight together. Golovkin always tried to have a solid undercard (ex Chocolatito).

Apr 19, 1991	Evander Holyfield vs. George Foreman	Holyfield wins by UD (116–111, 117–110, 115–112)	HBO	1,400,000[62]
Jun 28, 1991	Mike Tyson vs. Donovan Ruddock II	Tyson wins by UD (113–109, 114–108, 114–108)	Showtime	1,250,000[64]
Oct 18, 1991	Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison	Mercer wins by KO in round 5	HBO	200,000[164]
Jun 19, 1992	Evander Holyfield vs. Larry Holmes	Holyfield wins by UD (117–111, 116–112, 116–112)	HBO	730,000[165]
Sep 12, 1992	Julio César Chávez vs. Héctor Camacho	Chavez wins by UD (110-119, 111-117, 107-120)	Showtime	800,000[166]
Nov 13, 1992	Evander Holyfield vs. Rid**** Bowe	Bowe wins by UD (117–110, 117–110, 115–112)	HBO	900,000[167]
Jun 7, 1993	George Foreman vs. Tommy Morrison	Morrison wins by UD (117–110, 117–110, 118–108)	HBO	600,000[168]
Sep 10, 1993	Pernell Whitaker vs. Julio César Chávez	Majority draw (115–113, 115–115, 115–115)	Showtime	740,000[169]
Nov 6, 1993	Rid**** Bowe vs. Evander Holyfield II	Holyfield wins by MD (115–113, 115–114, 114–114)	HBO	950,000[170]
Nov 18, 1994	James Toney vs. Roy Jones Jr.	Jones Jr. wins by UD (119–108, 118–109, 117–110)	HBO	300,000[171]
May 6, 1995	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Rafael Ruelas	De La Hoya wins by TKO in round 2	HBO	330,000[172]
Aug 19, 1995	Mike Tyson vs. Peter McNeeley	Tyson wins by DQ in round 1	Showtime	1,600,000[67]
Nov 4, 1995	Rid**** Bowe vs. Evander Holyfield III	Bowe wins by TKO in round 8	HBO	650,000[173]
Mar 16, 1996	Frank Bruno vs. Mike Tyson II	Tyson wins by TKO in round 3	Showtime	1,400,000[67]
Sep 7, 1996	Mike Tyson vs. Bruce Seldon	Tyson wins by TKO in round 1	Showtime	1,150,000[62]
Nov 9, 1996	Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield	Holyfield wins by TKO in round 11	Showtime	1,600,000[67]
Apr 12, 1997	Pernell Whitaker vs. Oscar De La Hoya	De La Hoya wins by UD (115–111, 116–110, 116–110)	HBO	720,000[174]
Jun 28, 1997	Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield II	Holyfield wins by DQ in round 3	Showtime	1,990,000[62]
Sep 13, 1997	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Héctor Camacho	De La Hoya wins by UD (120–106, 120–105, 118–108)	HBO	560,000[174]
Oct 4, 1997	Lennox Lewis vs. Andrew Golota	Lewis wins by KO in round 1	HBO	300,000[175]
Nov 8, 1997	Evander Holyfield vs. Michael Moorer II	Holyfield wins by RTD in round 8	Showtime	550,000[176]
Jan 16, 1999	Mike Tyson vs. Francois Botha	Tyson wins by KO in round 5	Showtime	750,000[177]
Mar 13, 1999	Evander Holyfield vs. Lennox Lewis	Split draw (116–113, 113–115, 115–115)	HBO	1,200,000[178]
Sep 18, 1999	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Félix Trinidad	Trinidad wins by MD (115–113, 115–114, 114–114)	HBO	1,400,000[62]
Nov 13, 1999	Evander Holyfield vs. Lennox Lewis II	Lewis wins by UD (116–112, 117–111, 115–113)	HBO	850,000[178]
Apr 29, 2000	Lennox Lewis vs. Michael Grant	Lewis wins by KO in round 2	HBO	340,000[178]
Jun 17, 2000	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley	Mosley wins by SD (116–112, 115–113, 113–115)	HBO	590,000[174]
Sep 9, 2000	Roy Jones Jr. vs. Eric Harding	Jones Jr. wins by RTD in round 10	HBO	125,000[179]
Oct 20, 2000	Mike Tyson vs. Andrew Golota	Tyson wins by TKO in round 3 (later changed to an NC)	Showtime	450,000[180]
Nov 11, 2000	Lennox Lewis vs. David Tua	Lewis wins by UD (119–109, 118–110, 117–111)	HBO	420,000[178]
Mar 3, 2001	Evander Holyfield vs. John Ruiz II	Ruiz wins by UD (116–110, 115–111, 114–111)	Showtime	185,000[181]
Apr 7, 2001	Naseem Hamed vs. Marco Antonio Barrera	Barrera wins by UD (116–111, 115–112, 115–112)	HBO	310,000[182]
Jun 8, 2001	Laila Ali vs. Jacqui Frazier-Lyde	Ali wins by MD (73–79, 75–77, 76–76)	?	125,000[183]
Nov 17, 2001	Hasim Rahman vs. Lennox Lewis II	Lewis wins by KO in round 4	HBO	460,000[184]
Jun 8, 2002	Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson	Lewis wins by KO in round 8	HBO/Showtime	1,970,000[62]
Sep 14, 2002	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Fernando Vargas	De La Hoya wins by TKO in round 11	HBO	935,000[174]
Feb 22, 2003	Mike Tyson vs. Clifford Etienne	Tyson wins by KO in round 1	Showtime	100,000[181]
Mar 1, 2003	John Ruiz vs. Roy Jones Jr.	Jones Jr. wins by UD (118–110, 117–111, 116–112)	HBO	525,000[181]
Sep 13, 2003	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley II	Mosley wins by UD (113–115, 113–115, 113–115)	HBO	950,000[174]
Oct 4, 2003	James Toney vs. Evander Holyfield	Toney wins by TKO in round 9	Showtime	150,000[185]
Nov 8, 2003	Antonio Tarver vs. Roy Jones Jr.	Jones Jr. wins by MD (117–111, 116–112, 114–114)	HBO	302,000[186]
May 15, 2004	Roy Jones Jr. vs. Antonio Tarver II	Tarver wins by KO in round 2	HBO	360,000[187]
Sep 18, 2004	Bernard Hopkins vs. Oscar De La Hoya	Hopkins wins by KO in round 9	HBO	1,000,000[174]
Dec 11, 2004	Vitali Klitschko vs. Danny Williams	Klitschko wins by TKO in round 8	HBO	120,000[188]
Mar 19, 2005	Érik Morales vs. Manny Pacquiao	Morales wins by UD (115–113, 115–113, 115–113)	HBO	345,000[189]
Jun 11, 2005	Mike Tyson vs. Kevin McBride	McBride wins by TKO in round 7	Showtime	250,000[190]
Jun 25, 2005	Arturo Gatti vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr.	Mayweather Jr. wins by RTD in round 6	HBO	340,000[189]
Oct 1, 2005	Antonio Tarver vs. Roy Jones Jr. III	Tarver wins by UD (117–111, 116–112, 116–112)	HBO	405,000[191]
Jan 21, 2006	Manny Pacquiao vs Érik Morales II	Pacquiao wins by TKO in round 10	HBO	360,000[192]
Feb 25, 2006	Shane Mosley vs Fernando Vargas	Mosley wins by TKO in round 10	HBO	415,000[193]
Apr 8, 2006	Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Zab Judah	Mayweather Jr. wins by UD (116–112, 117–111, 119–109)	HBO	375,000[192]
May 6, 2006	Ricardo Mayorga vs. Oscar De La Hoya	De La Hoya wins by TKO in round 6	HBO	925,000[194]
May 6, 2006	Manny Pacquiao vs. Óscar Larios	Pacquiao wins by UD (117–110, 118–108, 120–106)	Top Rank	120,000[195]
Jul 15, 2006	Shane Mosley vs Fernando Vargas II	Mosley wins by TKO in round 6	HBO	350,000[193]
Aug 12, 2006	Hasim Rahman vs. Oleg Maskaev II	Maskaev wins by TKO in round 12	HBO	60,000[196]
Nov 4, 2006	Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Carlos Baldomir	Mayweather Jr. wins by UD (120–108, 120–108, 118–110)	HBO	325,000[192]
Nov 18, 2006	Manny Pacquiao vs Érik Morales III	Pacquiao wins by KO in round 3	HBO	350,000[192]
Apr 14, 2007	Manny Pacquiao vs Jorge Solís	Pacquiao wins by KO in round 8	Top Rank	150,000[197]
May 5, 2007	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr.	Mayweather Jr. wins by SD (116–112, 115–113, 113–115)	HBO	2,400,000[62]
Oct 10, 2007	Manny Pacquiao vs. Marco Antonio Barrera II	Pacquiao wins by UD (118–109, 118–109, 115–112)	HBO	350,000[198]
Dec 8, 2007	Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Ricky Hatton	Mayweather Jr. wins by TKO in round 10	HBO	920,000[83]
Jan 19, 2008	Félix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr.	Jones Jr. wins by UD (116-110, 117-109, 116-110)	HBO	500,000[199]
Feb 16, 2008	Kelly Pavlik vs. Jermain Taylor II	Pavlik wins by UD (115-113, 117-111, 116-112)	HBO	250,000[199]
Mar 15, 2008	Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Márquez II	Pacquiao wins by SD (115–112, 114–113, 112–115)	HBO	400,000[200]
Jun 28, 2008	David Díaz vs. Manny Pacquiao	Pacquiao wins by TKO in round 9	HBO	206,000[201]
Jul 26, 2008	Miguel Cotto vs. Antonio Margarito	Margarito wins by TKO in round 11	HBO	450,000[202]
Nov 8, 2008	Joe Calzaghe vs. Roy Jones Jr.	Calzaghe wins by UD (118–109, 118–109, 118–109)	HBO	225,000[202]
Dec 6, 2008	Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao	Pacquiao wins by RTD in round 8	HBO	1,250,000[62]
May 2, 2009	Manny Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton	Pacquiao wins by KO in round 2	HBO	850,000[81]
Sep 19, 2009	Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Márquez	Mayweather Jr. wins by UD (120–107, 119–108, 118–109)	HBO	1,060,000[83]
Nov 14, 2009	Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto	Pacquiao wins by TKO in round 12	HBO	1,250,000[85