Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Canelo-Jack, Spence-Crawford, Mayweather, More

[dukesville]

Steele absolutely made the right call in stopping the Chavez/Taylor fight. When Steele finished giving Taylor the 8 count there were 6 seconds left not 2 like some say, they say that cus that's what the biased commentators started screaming. Another thing is Taylor got up but he was holding on to the ropes and wobbling. You must be standing up on your own strength without assistance! He held the ropes cus he couldn't stand on his own!

[Smash]

that photo i think is when bivol made nelo cry lol

[SteelFist01]

I strongly disagree with Bread's opinion that the winner of Spence-Crawford becomes an ATG!

It's only subjective but I can't even get my head around how someone as knowledgeable as Bread would arrive at that opinion. If it became common opinion that either become an ATG after beating each other then it diminishes the meaning of ATG. After all, there aren't levels of ATG. Either you are an ATG - or you are not.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Ali
Sugar Ray Leonard
Hearns
Hagler
Chavez

These were indisputably ATGs.

Holyfield
Mayweather
Pac
Lewis

Most people are going to say they are ATGs, but I see their achievements as less than the first group. (perhaps not PAC - the weight leap is legendary)

Lets look at Spence - he beats 3 good WWs in Porter, Brook and Ugas (I'm not counting Garcia who has never won a step-up fight at WW) and a WW who looks very good in Crawford (but only beat Porter)

Lets take Bud. He was a weight bully at 135 but ok he unified. He unified at 140 and best opponent was a good 140-pounder in Postol. At WW he beats Porter and Spence (I'm not counting faded Brook and Khan)

Bud's resume is better. Not miles better but it is better. Now, and also if and when he beats Spence.

But neither of them come close to beating Hearns or Leonard. Spence gets out boxed and KO'd and Bud fights even with Hearns but get's KO'd or TKO'd and he gets worn down to a late stoppage by Leonard. Against Robinson - forget it - both get obliterated in first 6 rounds.

We just have to accept that modern boxers don't take enough risks and fights to give themselves a chance to build the resume to become ATGs.

Or, we can all become revisionists and accept a lesser definition of ATG.

Good points. In my opinion because of the era we're in, boxers of these past couple of generations, as well as the current generation don't fight as often as previous fighters, (along with other numerous factors), so it's difficult to compare eras. And, though I am certainly limited in my boxing knowledge and am no historian, when I think about what current fighters could be considered ATGs when their career is over, I look for a few things; their W-L record, and how they won, or lost and to whom and under what circumstances. And then, how many champions or contenders have they beat, and where were the champions/contenders at in their own careers, and I also look for 'signature' wins, or performances.

That said, I think that the first group of fighters are obvious in their greatness, and are clearly ATGs. I also think that the second group you mentioned may come up short when compared to the first group, yet in my opinion are still ATGs when I apply my own criteria to their careers.

Obviously, this is just my opinion and I am just adding my two cents. But, like I said, you make great points.

[dukesville]

Carlos Navarro Sugich, from Hermosillo, Mexico is a moron. I don’t even know why Bread bothered posting that nonsense. The most annoying type of fan is the one whose opinion in boxing is based on where the fighter is from rather than what the truth actually is. I’ve heard a lot of nonsense arguments to try and defend that Steele stoppage against Taylor but saying Taylor was knocked out was a new one. Bottom line, if that fight was allowed to continue , nobody would have said much other than how close Chavez came to mounting a comeback at the end. The fact that nearly every sensible fan still considers it to be one of the worst decisions a ref has ever made 30 yrs later let’s you know how bad it was.

Or how Steele should have stopped it because he could have saved Taylor's life. Every fan that knows the rules and is not biased knows Steele made the right call.

[Jab jab boom]

Or how Steele should have stopped it because he could have saved Taylor's life. Every fan that knows the rules and is not biased knows Steele made the right call.

Saved his life?? Lmaooo. Good job raising the bar of idiocy.

[Cyborg Fangerloo]

I strongly disagree with Bread's opinion that the winner of Spence-Crawford becomes an ATG!

It's only subjective but I can't even get my head around how someone as knowledgeable as Bread would arrive at that opinion. If it became common opinion that either become an ATG after beating each other then it diminishes the meaning of ATG. After all, there aren't levels of ATG. Either you are an ATG - or you are not.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Ali
Sugar Ray Leonard
Hearns
Hagler
Chavez

These were indisputably ATGs.

Holyfield
Mayweather
Pac
Lewis

Most people are going to say they are ATGs, but I see their achievements as less than the first group. (perhaps not PAC - the weight leap is legendary)

Lets look at Spence - he beats 3 good WWs in Porter, Brook and Ugas (I'm not counting Garcia who has never won a step-up fight at WW) and a WW who looks very good in Crawford (but only beat Porter)

Lets take Bud. He was a weight bully at 135 but ok he unified. He unified at 140 and best opponent was a good 140-pounder in Postol. At WW he beats Porter and Spence (I'm not counting faded Brook and Khan)

Bud's resume is better. Not miles better but it is better. Now, and also if and when he beats Spence.

But neither of them come close to beating Hearns or Leonard. Spence gets out boxed and KO'd and Bud fights even with Hearns but get's KO'd or TKO'd and he gets worn down to a late stoppage by Leonard. Against Robinson - forget it - both get obliterated in first 6 rounds.

We just have to accept that modern boxers don't take enough risks and fights to give themselves a chance to build the resume to become ATGs.

Or, we can all become revisionists and accept a lesser definition of ATG.

I agree with all of this even though I think that far too often in boxing we call the current generation trash and say all the old guys would smash them. I likely would get crap for this, but I believe Vitali Klitschko would destroy Ali.
Spence and Bud simply have done far too little to be considered ATG’s.

[dukesville]

Saved his life?? Lmaooo. Good job raising the bar of idiocy.

Your assumption is not anymore valid than what I said . But point being Steele did his job, he gave Taylor the 8 count saw he was wobbly and holding on to the ropes which the rules state you cannot do, you must stand on your own power .. something you did not know it I see and counted him out. Those are the rules.

[ShoulderRoll]

I agree with all of this even though I think that far too often in boxing we call the current generation trash and say all the old guys would smash them. I likely would get crap for this, but I believe Vitali Klitschko would destroy Ali.
Spence and Bud simply have done far too little to be considered ATG’s.

Vitali Klitschko couldn’t even destroy Chris Byrd.

[Jab jab boom]

Your assumption is not anymore valid than what I said . But point being Steele did his job, he gave Taylor the 8 count saw he was wobbly and holding on to the ropes which the rules state you cannot do, you must stand on your own power .. something you did not know it I see and counted him out. Those are the rules.

. What assumption that Chavez wasn’t going to kill anyone with 2 seconds left? Don’t be a fool. Chavez wouldn’t have even had time to land a punch, especially if Steele did his job and made him go to a neutral corner instead of hovering right behind him. Why don’t you read breads reply about the very same ref giving hearns the chance to continue under very similar conditions. Don’t give me this hold on the ropes thing is an automatic stoppage. That’s never happened and never been the cause of a stoppage. What Steele was supposed to do was ask Taylor to walk to him to assess his status and also make sure that Chavez was in a neutral corner. He did neither. He was a corrupt ref and saved the A sided record with a terrible call.

[dukesville]

. What assumption that Chavez wasn’t going to kill anyone with 2 seconds left? Don’t be a fool. Chavez wouldn’t have even had time to land a punch, especially if Steele did his job and made him go to a neutral corner instead of hovering right behind him. Why don’t you read breads reply about the very same ref giving hearns the chance to continue under very similar conditions. Don’t give me this hold on the ropes thing is an automatic stoppage. That’s never happened and never been the cause of a stoppage. What Steele was supposed to do was ask Taylor to walk to him to assess his status and also make sure that Chavez was in a neutral corner. He did neither. He was a corrupt ref and saved the A sided record with a terrible call.

Yes that's what they are either way you go, assumptions nothing more Now like I said before when Steele reached the 8 count there were 6 seconds left not 2 like the biased commentators started screaming.if Steele asks Taylor to walk towards him Taylor falls down face first! Taylor could not stand on his own much less walk towards anyone that's why he held the ropes! Now you say holding on to the ropes after a kd is no cause for a stoppage? You even say "it's never happened"?! Ha you're a fool fights have been stopped for fighters just being wobbly standing on their own! You have no idea what the rules are or what you're talking about. You are what you criticize in your original comment ha ha!