Would this be an effective way to deal with fighters who fail drug tests?

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

So whenever a fighter tests positive, there’s always an excuse. Whether it be clenbuterol riddled cows, nandrolone infected boars, eating 50 eggs a day, feeding d-bol to your dog etc etc. It seems everybody has a ridiculous excuse to explain how they didn’t deliberately ingest the substance.

Whether you deliberately ingested or not, you still failed a drugs test, you still violated the rules and should still be punished.

To use an extreme example, if I killed someone, but it was not deliberate, I’d still be charged with man slaughter. Whether deliberate or not I still would have committed a crime.

I think that’s the sort of middle ground we need with drug test failures. So here’s what I’d propose:

A fighter that fails a drug test who “knowingly and/or deliberately” ingested the substance would receive the full penalty of a 4 year ban.

A fighter that fails a drug test who “unknowingly” ingested the substance would receive a 2 year ban.

It would likely just result in everyone getting 2 years bans but it’s better than the current situation of a fighter failing, making up a crazy excuse, forcing litigation and then fighting again within 12 months.

Thoughts?

[Smash]

auto 1 yr ban first offence and auto 4 for second offence

there will be people who are very unlucky and do get contaminated somehow (i think) so 1 yr is not so excessive and its enough for a 1st offence if u are guilty too, no more messing around

actually all drug testing bodies would need to recognise each other and have standard rules tests or else lawsuit heaven maybe or just one body used for all

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

auto 1 yr ban first offence and auto 4 for second offence

there will be people who are very unlucky and do get contaminated somehow (i think) so 1 yr is not so excessive and its enough for a 1st offence if u are guilty too, no more messing around

actually all drug testing bodies would need to recognise each other and have standard rules tests or else lawsuit heaven maybe or just one body used for all

My only issue with a 1 year ban is fighters fight so infrequently nowadays. How would a 1 year ban effect Keith Thurman for example? Or GRJ?

For that reason I went with 2 years as the minimum penalty.

[_Rexy_]

That's how it used to be. Bermaine took a suspension off a protein bar. They said that it's still his responsibility to check the ingredients or some ****.

[Silence]

You need lifetime ban from internet.





Chimps should be in zoo, not forum.

[SteveM]

So whenever a fighter tests positive, there’s always an excuse. Whether it be clenbuterol riddled cows, nandrolone infected boars, eating 50 eggs a day, feeding d-bol to your dog etc etc. It seems everybody has a ridiculous excuse to explain how they didn’t deliberately ingest the substance.

Whether you deliberately ingested or not, you still failed a drugs test, you still violated the rules and should still be punished.

To use an extreme example, if I killed someone, but it was not deliberate, I’d still be charged with man slaughter. Whether deliberate or not I still would have committed a crime.

I think that’s the sort of middle ground we need with drug test failures. So here’s what I’d propose:

A fighter that fails a drug test who “knowingly and/or deliberately” ingested the substance would receive the full penalty of a 4 year ban.

A fighter that fails a drug test who “unknowingly” ingested the substance would receive a 2 year ban.

It would likely just result in everyone getting 2 years bans but it’s better than the current situation of a fighter failing, making up a crazy excuse, forcing litigation and then fighting again within 12 months.

Thoughts?

Great idea. But didn't it used to be this way - that you are accountable for what ends up in your system? I'm not sure why that has changed. I'd rather see that adhered too because if you start differentiating between accident and intentional ingestion then there'll still be a load of disputes. I prefer to see open and shut cases.

To get over the issue of those fighters who fight once a year you could have a penalty of 2 times average activity over the last 4 amount of fights so for Gary Russell it'd be 2 years. For Benn it'd be less as he has been relatively active.

Another factor should be how egregious the violation is - for someone like Miller who I think tested positive for 3 substances the ban should be for longer.

There can still be room for a fighter to protest their innocence but the onus of proof is on them and subject to a hearing. Benn said that the laboratory procedure was bad, the WBC expert witness said it was fine. Case thrown out. Egg ingestion is crap excuse - prove you ate thousands of eggs over months - purchase receipts, or whatever.

[tritium_arma]

They should re required to enroll in 365 24/7 drug testing for a minimum period of time out of their own pocket.

[War Room]

That's how it used to be. Bermaine took a suspension off a protein bar. They said that it's still his responsibility to check the ingredients or some ****.

_____

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Great idea. But didn't it used to be this way - that you are accountable for what ends up in your system? I'm not sure why that has changed. I'd rather see that adhered too because if you start differentiating between accident and intentional ingestion then there'll still be a load of disputes. I prefer to see open and shut cases.

To get over the issue of those fighters who fight once a year you could have a penalty of 2 times average activity over the last 4 amount of fights so for Gary Russell it'd be 2 years. For Benn it'd be less as he has been relatively active.

Another factor should be how egregious the violation is - for someone like Miller who I think tested positive for 3 substances the ban should be for longer.

There can still be room for a fighter to protest their innocence but the onus of proof is on them and subject to a hearing. Benn said that the laboratory procedure was bad, the WBC expert witness said it was fine. Case thrown out. Egg ingestion is crap excuse - prove you ate thousands of eggs over months - purchase receipts, or whatever.

It just feels like nowadays, if you can create any sort of reasonable doubt that you knowingly took the substance, then you get cleared and face minor consequences.

I said in another thread you’d literally have to catch an athlete with the needle/IV still attached to them in order to make the charges stick these days.

I think if you fail a test, regardless of why you failed, you still failed, so you should receive some form of punishment.

Another thing I’d like to add, is if you go down the legal route like Benn, Whyte, Fury etc, I would uphold your ban until legal proceedings conclude. So if you forced litigation for 12 months, your 2 year ban wouldn’t start until after it had been concluded so you’d be out the ring for 3 years. It would hopefully stop fighters legally bullying testing agencies because they know they don’t have the financial backing to fund an expensive legal battle. They start these endless lawsuits and then when enough time has passed they eventually accept a back-dated or shadow ban and act like they were innocent all along.

[NorvernRob]

So whenever a fighter tests positive, there’s always an excuse. Whether it be clenbuterol riddled cows, nandrolone infected boars, eating 50 eggs a day, feeding d-bol to your dog etc etc. It seems everybody has a ridiculous excuse to explain how they didn’t deliberately ingest the substance.

Whether you deliberately ingested or not, you still failed a drugs test, you still violated the rules and should still be punished.

To use an extreme example, if I killed someone, but it was not deliberate, I’d still be charged with man slaughter. Whether deliberate or not I still would have committed a crime.

I think that’s the sort of middle ground we need with drug test failures. So here’s what I’d propose:

A fighter that fails a drug test who “knowingly and/or deliberately” ingested the substance would receive the full penalty of a 4 year ban.

A fighter that fails a drug test who “unknowingly” ingested the substance would receive a 2 year ban.

It would likely just result in everyone getting 2 years bans but it’s better than the current situation of a fighter failing, making up a crazy excuse, forcing litigation and then fighting again within 12 months.

Thoughts?

Each case has to be looked at on its own though. Benn’s statement says that his sample was tested negative 3 times before being positive a 4th time 9 days later. Clomifene also stays in your system weeks to months, but he was negative the week after with a VADA test.

Cases like that there’s too much uncertainty, as due process wasn’t followed. Automatic bans mean testing agencies would be sued regularly, and the court for arbitration of sport would simply overturn the decisions.

The testing agencies have to cross every T and dot every i or their findings aren’t worth the paper they are written on, it’s peoples careers at stake.