Would you class Lomachenko as a great creative boxer?

[Earl-Hickey]

I was having a discussion earlier with a guy who said lomachenko isn't a great creative boxer

He said he is just "well drilled" and that "he does the same 4 or 5 moves all the time he just does them really, really well"

He pointed to the Teo Fight and said loma couldn't figure Teo out and that Teo just gassed bit I'm not sure.

He said great creative fighters like Hopkins, Floyd, Leonard, Ali, Holyfield and Lewis could adapt and do things you never usually saw them do in fights if they encountered a style clash. He says loma can't do that and just spams the same moves even if they aren't working because he can't come up with anything else to do.

[REMOVE SHARK 555]

All Loma haters have is the first half of the Teo fight where he didn't do much. Dude is saying Loma can't make adjustments but all you have to do is watch the second half of the Teo fight to know that's not true at all.

Other than that fight he has been completely dominant at 135, losing very few rounds and dropping every other opponent to the canvas AND he's the little guy fighting in a weightclass above where he naturally belongs.

'Y'all must've forgot'

[Dakuwaqa]

I’ve seen him aquatint between rounds

[Floyd is TBE]

He lost to Salidoe then was dominated by a green and inexperienced Teo. He's all hype. Only thing notable about his career is him beating up a bunch of boys in the amateurs.

[REMOVE SHARK 555]

His loss to Salido is another great example of him being able to make adjustments. He walked through 40ish low blows and was still seconds away from stopping Salido in the 12th.

[P to the J]

I was having a discussion earlier with a guy who said lomachenko isn't a great creative boxer

He said he is just "well drilled" and that "he does the same 4 or 5 moves all the time he just does them really, really well"

He pointed to the Teo Fight and said loma couldn't figure Teo out and that Teo just gassed bit I'm not sure.

He said great creative fighters like Hopkins, Floyd, Leonard, Ali, Holyfield and Lewis could adapt and do things you never usually saw them do in fights if they encountered a style clash. He says loma can't do that and just spams the same moves even if they aren't working because he can't come up with anything else to do.

Maybe the 'creativity' is just a myth, and in fact, all 'creativity' comes down to being well-drilled?

Certainly adds to the romance of sporting tales to conclude that someone thought outside the box and pulled some magic/miracle out of nowhere, in a feat of superhero or Christ-like individualism.

In reality, these guys are training, and training hard, with a team of coaches and whoever else, to the extent that a boxer develops a boxing IQ encompassing situational awareness; herein, they have practiced responding to a range of different in-ring situations, and recall and replicate such a response as and when needed in a real fight.

This applies to training for almost all skills one can think of thus rendering the idea of 'natural talent' also a myth. Any supposedly genius, prodigy practitioner in any field you can think of, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods, Bobby Fisher in chess, etc., all started young and have had hundreds of thousands of hours of training to reach their level. The preparation is what gives them the ability to respond in real time. So in a sense, they're all well-drilled.

[P to the J]

He lost to Salidoe then was dominated by a green and inexperienced Teo. He's all hype. Only thing notable about his career is him beating up a bunch of boys in the amateurs.

This is an arguable point, buts it not a response to the OP's question. Is he well-drilled or a supernatural, magician, genius man?

[1hourRun]

Maybe the 'creativity' is just a myth, and in fact, all 'creativity' comes down to being well-drilled?

Certainly adds to the romance of sporting tales to conclude that someone thought outside the box and pulled some magic/miracle out of nowhere, in a feat of superhero or Christ-like individualism.

In reality, these guys are training, and training hard, with a team of coaches and whoever else, to the extent that a boxer develops a boxing IQ encompassing situational awareness; herein, they have practiced responding to a range of different in-ring situations, and recall and replicate such a response as and when needed in a real fight.

This applies to training for almost all skills one can think of thus rendering the idea of 'natural talent' also a myth. Any supposedly genius, prodigy practitioner in any field you can think of, Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods, Bobby Fisher in chess, etc., all started young and have had hundreds of thousands of hours of training to reach their level. The preparation is what gives them the ability to respond in real time. So in a sense, they're all well-drilled.

Superb writing PJ. I got to give your comment some thought ; I'm not sure that if I agree or disagree but I thought that I should quote you for this well thought-out and persuasive reply.

[RetroSpeed05]

Any fighter that has to clinch and hold when a guy is coming in isn't a creative fighter. A lot of these guy's also then get praised by people saying "he has enough power that guys just don't rush in". No they don't rush in because that boxer hugs him all the time to prevent a attack. I give credit to any fighter that uses his athleticism and skills to defend and not hug while always being smaller in height, weight and having the shorter reach. Especially having a pressure style while having the best +/- in boxing. Now find me a boxer that has all of that besides Loma?

[PRINCEKOOL]

Skill for skill, Lomachenko is operating at a higher level than Canelo Alvarez.

He is there about maybe, with Terrence Crawford & Errol Spence Junior etc.

What is creativity to a boxer, and how do you identify it?

Floyd Mayweather Junior for me, was very choreographed. He had a strategy for most situations inside a boxing ring, which he would employ when they happen.

And that from the outside, this appears to resemble creativity. Difference is with Mayweather Junior and other fighters? Whatever obstacle he was faced with, he had a answer for and could implement a counter strategy. That makes him appear creative, but it is not quite pure creativity.

The most creative fighters of the past 3 decades have been Roy Jones Junior & Prince Naseem Hamed. Those fighters did not really have choreographed drilled moves. It would of been difficult for opponents to anticipate their routines, extremely difficult.

Not many fighters are purely creative inside the ring, many are reactive or choreographed. They find themselves in a situation, and understand right? This is what I do in this situation. Some fighters can implement these counter strategies, others will struggle.

Reactivity, choreographed movies and tactics, creativity.

In various degree's, these are the some attributes which combined that influence a fighters tactical mind abilities.

Deontay Wilder is a extremely reactive fighter for example.

Tyson Fury low reactivity, most of the time he is dictating the action.

I would say fighters primarily do not always want to be in a reactive state, but having that ability is also a strength.

Wilder is 90% of the time in a reactive state. And he really only has one form of reaction 'Extreme aggression and violence' there is no other reaction that has been displayed by Wilder inside the ring. Wilder thus-far in his career, will reactive with violence until there is no more 'That is a very ominous challenge for any of his opponents'.

Depending on the fighter, they have different reactive modes.