Comments Thread For: Bivol: Fight With Gilberto Ramirez Is Interesting, But I Would First Like To Fight For More Belts

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  • BZBEE
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    #41
    Originally posted by jaded
    Ramirez is the mandatory, but a unification fight supersedes a mandatory defense, so he will have to wait if Bivol and the winner of Beterbiev vs Smith can make the fight or Bivol rematches Canelo. Boesel was just a punching bag, and Ramirez has never fought anyone close to Bivol's level. He needs to fight the loser of Beterbiev vs Smith (which will most likely be Smith) first because he won't get Bivol this year, but instead he will pick a safe opponent. He's big, but Bivol's movement and skill set would make it hard for him.
    Bivol could go that route if he chooses to unify or take a canelo rematch, In regards to belts and money, it would be better for him. If I was Ramirez I would not risk my opportunity unless a belt is on the line or very good money.

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    • BustedKnuckles
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      #42
      Originally posted by -Kev-
      That’s fair. When GGG wanted to just chase belts and not really challenge himself to fight the best fighters calling him out, everyone was down with that. When Canelo came up to 168 just looking to collect belts, and at 175 just looking to get a belt up there, his fanbase (which I am part of) had no issues with that either.

      Big woop if Bivol jus wants to get other belts. We are talking about, possibly, Beterbiev. Does anyone really have any issues with that? One of the best fights to make in boxing right now is Bivol vs Beterbiev. I am all for it.

      I also am not too fond of Ramirez coming in at 204lbs for a Light Heavyweight fight. That is total abuse of the system and I know he isn’t the only one doing it, but this among the craziest one’s I have seen reported. Move up to Cruiserweight with your big ass. That sh/t is not fair. I don’t care if he makes weight, that much rehydration should be unacceptable. All sanctioning bodies and boxing officials should be looking at that and saying “hell no!”. There should be a rehydration rule, 15lbs max. If you need to rehydrate more than that, move your ass up another weigh class.
      I hear you on the stuff about Ramirez. But if theyre going to institute a 15lb max rehydration, then why not just skip that other kind of farce and just make same day weigh ins?

      Its like saying, you can "cheat weight" but only by max 15 lbs. Just make fighters fight same size fighters.

      They'll always find an angle, but with same day weigh ina, their bound to be a lot closer to natural weight.

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      • 3ProudLions
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        #43
        Bivol v Ramirez is a interesting fight but I would like bivol to fight the winner of beterbiev v Smith.

        Seems like bivol wants that the most.

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        • techliam
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          #44
          Originally posted by BZBEE

          Listen to the interview I posted in page #1 they even say it. He beat the #1 guy, why is he not mandatory? Who is mandatory?
          The WBA regular champion

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          • techliam
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            #45
            Originally posted by jaded
            Ramirez is the mandatory, but a unification fight supersedes a mandatory defense, so he will have to wait if Bivol and the winner of Beterbiev vs Smith can make the fight or Bivol rematches Canelo. Boesel was just a punching bag, and Ramirez has never fought anyone close to Bivol's level. He needs to fight the loser of Beterbiev vs Smith (which will most likely be Smith) first because he won't get Bivol this year, but instead he will pick a safe opponent. He's big, but Bivol's movement and skill set would make it hard for him.
            Unifications do not automatically supersede mandatories
            it’s up to the sanctioning body to approve. They often enforce the mandatory instead

            in the WBA’s case, they are likely to offer Ramirez a shot at the vacant regular title should Bivol not want to fight him over Canelo/Beterbiev

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            • BZBEE
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              #46
              Originally posted by techliam

              Unifications do not automatically supersede mandatories
              it’s up to the sanctioning body to approve. They often enforce the mandatory instead

              in the WBA’s case, they are likely to offer Ramirez a shot at the vacant regular title should Bivol not want to fight him over Canelo/Beterbiev
              They are trying to eliminate the regular titles. Bivol is the only WBA Light heavy champion at this moment, we do not need another title.

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              • jaded
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                #47
                Originally posted by techliam

                Unifications do not automatically supersede mandatories
                it’s up to the sanctioning body to approve. They often enforce the mandatory instead

                in the WBA’s case, they are likely to offer Ramirez a shot at the vacant regular title should Bivol not want to fight him over Canelo/Beterbiev
                Wrong...and the WBA won't be vacated.

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                • techliam
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                  #48
                  Originally posted by jaded

                  Wrong...and the WBA won't be vacated.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_challenger
                  The WBA won’t be vacated, they will just create a WBA regular championship… Bivol is currently the ‘Super’ Champion. Double the champions, double the sanctioning fees

                  As for the ‘unifications trump mandatories’ thing, here’s the WBA’s rule in the matter:

                  46. Special Permits. Strict application of these rules may be suspended or modified when the Association deems them justified in its sole discretion to accommodate special circumstances, to unify championships or to establish a Super Championship. In such cases, the Association will consider a request for Special Permit (or Exception) for any reasons including, but not limited to, the following:
                  a. To engage in an optional title defense otherwise barred by a mandatory defense requirement, or to fight someone not the mandatory or leading available contender;
                  b. To fight for a title in a different weight division for the Association or for another sanctioning body;
                  c. To engage in a non-title bout;
                  d. To unify an Association title with that of another organization;
                  e. To engage in a bout of recognized importance and significance for the
                  boxing world;
                  f. To establish a Super Championship; or
                  g. To extend or otherwise modify a mandatory defense period.
                  WBA RULES as Adopted at Directorate Meeting in Sofia, Bulgaria 6/11/15 17

                  47. Considering Special Permits. Special permits may be granted, denied, or granted conditionally for good cause. They shall be approved by a two-third vote of the Championship Committee and the consent of the President. The Committee and the President in their sole discretion shall consider the best interests of boxing, the purposes and policies of the Association, and such other factors that may be relevant, and shall make their best effort to balance competing interests. The Association is not obliged to grant a request for Special Permit. When approving a request, the Association may require such conditions as it deems necessary to protect the interests of the Association and affected boxers.
                  Requests to engage in a title unification bout shall be given special consideration, and the committee and President may give greater weight to the reasons and arguments for such requests, in recognition of the interest of the boxing community to effectuate title unifications. In addition, in the establishment of a Super Championship, the provisions of Rule C.18, and other relevant Rules, shall apply.

                  Or in other words, the WBA decides at its discretion. They have been better at allowing unifications over mandatories recently but they can deny it as they wish, and they have done so before

                  In Bivols case, it’s irrelevant as he’s not the world champion, he’s the ‘Super’ world champion and has different mandatory obligations

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                  • techliam
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                    #49
                    Originally posted by BZBEE

                    They are trying to eliminate the regular titles. Bivol is the only WBA Light heavy champion at this moment, we do not need another title.
                    They are not trying to at all. They said they were, a couple years ago. But they have created regular championships very recently:

                    Trevor Bryan
                    Erislandy Lara
                    Ryad Merhy
                    David Morrell
                    Eimantas Stanionis
                    Leigh Wood
                    Esteban Bermudez
                    Erick Rosa

                    All regular champions crowned in either 2021 or 2022

                    This isn’t even counting the obviously corrupt backing they have for fighters like Davis with his regular title extravaganza


                    No arguments from me though when you say we don’t need another champion at 175. At the same time, these sanctioning bodies need to go back to unified mandatories to stop the joke mandatory system we have currently

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                    • jaded
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                      #50
                      Originally posted by techliam

                      The WBA won’t be vacated, they will just create a WBA regular championship… Bivol is currently the ‘Super’ Champion. Double the champions, double the sanctioning fees

                      As for the ‘unifications trump mandatories’ thing, here’s the WBA’s rule in the matter:

                      46. Special Permits. Strict application of these rules may be suspended or modified when the Association deems them justified in its sole discretion to accommodate special circumstances, to unify championships or to establish a Super Championship. In such cases, the Association will consider a request for Special Permit (or Exception) for any reasons including, but not limited to, the following:
                      a. To engage in an optional title defense otherwise barred by a mandatory defense requirement, or to fight someone not the mandatory or leading available contender;
                      b. To fight for a title in a different weight division for the Association or for another sanctioning body;
                      c. To engage in a non-title bout;
                      d. To unify an Association title with that of another organization;
                      e. To engage in a bout of recognized importance and significance for the
                      boxing world;
                      f. To establish a Super Championship; or
                      g. To extend or otherwise modify a mandatory defense period.
                      WBA RULES as Adopted at Directorate Meeting in Sofia, Bulgaria 6/11/15 17

                      47. Considering Special Permits. Special permits may be granted, denied, or granted conditionally for good cause. They shall be approved by a two-third vote of the Championship Committee and the consent of the President. The Committee and the President in their sole discretion shall consider the best interests of boxing, the purposes and policies of the Association, and such other factors that may be relevant, and shall make their best effort to balance competing interests. The Association is not obliged to grant a request for Special Permit. When approving a request, the Association may require such conditions as it deems necessary to protect the interests of the Association and affected boxers.
                      Requests to engage in a title unification bout shall be given special consideration, and the committee and President may give greater weight to the reasons and arguments for such requests, in recognition of the interest of the boxing community to effectuate title unifications. In addition, in the establishment of a Super Championship, the provisions of Rule C.18, and other relevant Rules, shall apply.

                      Or in other words, the WBA decides at its discretion. They have been better at allowing unifications over mandatories recently but they can deny it as they wish, and they have done so before

                      In Bivols case, it’s irrelevant as he’s not the world champion, he’s the ‘Super’ world champion and has different mandatory obligations
                      That's all you need to know...

                      d. To unify an Association title with that of another organization;

                      Bivol vs either Beterbiev or Smith. I don't know why you are arguing? You posted it yourself.

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