The WBA regular title...

[Marchegiano]

Is meaningless. It's being discussed because it's on the line in the Tank-Barrios fight and we all know the real Champion at 140 is Josh Taylor. I personally don't have a big problem with it, it's only there to get more sanctioning fees and promotional companies use them to market fights they want in order to to make them appear more important than what they are. It won't make Tank a 3 division champion and it didn't make Golovkin tie Hopkin's record. I don't see why some get up in arms over it but they are worthless trinkets.

Do you guys have strong feelings about them one way or another? Do you think they should they be eliminated?

Actually, I'm not sure with the Reg.

The WBA Regular came off the back of Ruiz-Lennox fight that never happened and a decent time span from Ruiz to Wlad where the WBA champion was consistently seen as the weak champion because the fighters who earned WBA mandos where not good enough fights for the WBC, IBF, or WBO champions at the time.

I'm talking about Ruiz, Jones, Valuev, and Haye.

Lennox signs a contract with Evander for Undisputed that said Lennox's first defense as undisputed would be against the WBA number one contender, Ruiz, but Lennox would rather fight WBC contender Grant so he did that and got stripped. The WBA even tried to side with Lennox. Ruiz sued and won. The WBA had no choice but to allow Ruiz to fight for the WBA title.

Then Evander, Ruiz, Jones. Jones ****s off out of the division

Ruiz had the interim and was elevated to full champion when Jones left HW, IBF/WBC is still Lennox and WBO is Wlad but WBO isn't a top title yet.

Valuev next then Chagaev. Ruslan refused a rematch with Valuev and was stripped. Valuev beats Ruiz for the vacant WBA.

Wlad and Vitali have taken the other belts for some time now, WBO became full in 06/07 around the time Chagaev was the WBA champion.

Haye beats Valuev and becomes the WBA champion

Lennox Lewis, retired by now, writes to the WBA and explains his situation as champion and understanding their legal obligation to mandatories as a body he suggests the creation of a title with more flexible rules for unified champions and a world WBA title to appease the mandatories who have a legitimate legal means to force a title match from the body, but, no legal means to force a title match with a universally recognized title. John Ruiz didn't have to fight Lennox Lewis for a title that's part of the undisputed titles and he didn't have to not fight for a WBA world title. He could have fought for a WBA world title that is not recognized by the WBC, IBF, or WBO.

The WBA liked this idea and created the title. Which is why Wlad's first crack comes with the Super in 2011. The WBA announced their titles and the WBC, IBF, and WBO quickly refused to recognize regular champions.

From there WBA regulars are as valuable outside of the WBA as IBO titles.

It is ****, but, I do believe Lennox wrote that letter. I have no reason not to. The WBA wasn't moaning about needing new titles or legal issues. Lennox was watching how the fallout from his decision continued to hurt boxing nearly a decade after he'd retired and suggested a solution. A bad solution.

[Citizen Koba]

Actually, I'm not sure with the Reg.

The WBA Regular came off the back of Ruiz-Lennox fight that never happened and a decent time span from Ruiz to Wlad where the WBA champion was consistently seen as the weak champion because the fighters who earned WBA mandos where not good enough fights for the WBC, IBF, or WBO champions at the time.

I'm talking about Ruiz, Jones, Valuev, and Haye.

Lennox signs a contract with Evander for Undisputed that said Lennox's first defense as undisputed would be against the WBA number one contender, Ruiz, but Lennox would rather fight WBC contender Grant so he did that and got stripped. The WBA even tried to side with Lennox. Ruiz sued and won. The WBA had no choice but to allow Ruiz to fight for the WBA title.

Then Evander, Ruiz, Jones. Jones ****s off out of the division

Ruiz had the interim and was elevated to full champion when Jones left HW, IBF/WBC is still Lennox and WBO is Wlad but WBO isn't a top title yet.

Valuev next then Chagaev. Ruslan refused a rematch with Valuev and was stripped. Valuev beats Ruiz for the vacant WBA.

Wlad and Vitali have taken the other belts for some time now, WBO became full in 06/07 around the time Chagaev was the WBA champion.

Haye beats Valuev and becomes the WBA champion

Lennox Lewis, retired by now, writes to the WBA and explains his situation as champion and understanding their legal obligation to mandatories as a body he suggests the creation of a title with more flexible rules for unified champions and a world WBA title to appease the mandatories who have a legitimate legal means to force a title match from the body, but, no legal means to force a title match with a universally recognized title. John Ruiz didn't have to fight Lennox Lewis for a title that's part of the undisputed titles and he didn't have to not fight for a WBA world title. He could have fought for a WBA world title that is not recognized by the WBC, IBF, or WBO.

The WBA liked this idea and created the title. Which is why Wlad's first crack comes with the Super in 2011. The WBA announced their titles and the WBC, IBF, and WBO quickly refused to recognize regular champions.

From there WBA regulars are as valuable outside of the WBA as IBO titles.

It is ****, but, I do believe Lennox wrote that letter. I have no reason not to. The WBA wasn't moaning about needing new titles or legal issues. Lennox was watching how the fallout from his decision continued to hurt boxing nearly a decade after he'd retired and suggested a solution. A bad solution.

Your timeline's a little off looking across all the weighclasses although it's probably forgivable cos I know you're mainly about the Heavyweights, Marche, but yeah, it was indeed on the back of the Ruiz vs Lewis debacle that it was introduced and the WBA themselves do credit Lennox with coming up with the idea for similar reasons to those you state - in short that the mandatory demands of unified champions to defend multiple titles were unduly onerous and in fact sometimes preventing bigger fights from being made. You're accurate in that the first HW 'Super' titlist was Wlad in 2011 but the history of the designation goes back almost a decade before that. Of course, though the 'Reg' was just the World title originally - in fact it was the Super that was the new one, although initially there wasn't supposed to be two seperate titles, the 'Super' designation just meant that unified titlists had to make fewer mandatories.I don't expect it was long before the WBA saw the potential $$$s in having two distinct titles on offer though....

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-super-...-championships

WBA SUPER CHAMPIONSHIPS

DEFINITION

The SUPER WORLD CHAMPION CATEGORY OR UNDISPUTED WORLD CHAMPION was created for those World Champions who hold the title of two or more organizations recognized by the WBA, like the World Boxing Council (WBC), the International Boxing Federation (IBF) and the World Boxing Organization (WBO).

The creation of the category of SUPER WORLD CHAMPIONS or UNDISPUTED WORLD CHAMPIONS was born from a suggestion sent to us by Lennox Lewis, World Boxing Association former Heavyweight Champion, which we have considered convenient in order to give the Unified Champions a more flexible time to defend their titles as well as the challengers the chance to fight for the title.

PROPOSED REGULATION

We are still working to set the regulation that shall rule the SUPER WORLD CHAMPIONS, and we have considered it convenient to establish the following:

The SUPER CHAMPIONS will be obliged to make the mandatory defense of their titles in a period no longer than 18 months against the boxer recognized as the World Boxing Association Champion of the corresponding division.

In the intermediate period between the mandatory defenses, the UNDISPUTED SUPER CHAMPION will be able to defend his title against any recognized opponent chosen from the official ratings list of the WBA or from the organizations it recognizes and with the approval of those organizations.

The WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO will coordinate whenever necessary their respective ratings, to minimize any incompatibility in them for the Unified Titles, thus easing the optional fights of the UNIFIED SUPER CHAMPIONS.

In those cases of controversies that make difficult the selection of the mandatory contender to fight with the SUPER CHAMPION, the organizations will be able to order mandatory fights (Box-off suggested by Lennox Lewis) to determine the mandatory contender –previously agreed-. In those cases when they do not reach an agreement to make the mandatory fight as it is stated in point ‘a’ and ‘b’ previously stated in this provisional regulation, the Purse Bid Procedure will be ordered.

So the 'Super' Champion designation dates all the way back to December 2000 with Roy at LHW, folowed by Tsyzu (Feb 2001), Hopkins in Sept 2001 and DLH and Mayorga (as 'unified' champions in 2002) and there have been various iterations dating from that time, with it sometimes being called 'unified' champion, sometimes 'Super'. The Wiki page makes some interesting reading since some brave soul has taken it upon themselves to divide the WBAs lineages down into 'Primary' and 'Secondary' (Primary was the 'World' title up until they introduced the 'Super' and 'unified' titles, at which point the 'World' title became the secondary title unless there was no incumbent 'Super' titlist).. cong**** to whichever mfer put in the work for that update cos it wasn't like that a year or so ago when I last looked at that Wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_champions

Until 2009 the 'Super' champion status was only granted to unified Champions, but at some point in 2009 that was changed to making any champion with 5 defenses or more eligible for elevation and removing the necessity for the incumbent to be a unified Champion - the only immediately affected Boxer was Felix Sturm (who it is also alleged offered bribes to the WBA), although several others have subsequently benefited from the rule. Incidentally there is a strange requisite that MWs required 10 defenses for elevation which must have been brought in subsequent to Sturm's elevation although I've been unable to establish precisely when.

Clearly the 5 (or 10 for MW) defenses rule would imply that the 'Super' title - or designation if you prefer - would not be transferable in the ring, ie you couldn't 'Win' it by beating the incumbent since you wouldn't have the requisite number of defenses, but this absurd rule also quickly went out the window when it had served it's purpose and now we have a situation where both the world and super titles exist alongside each other with no special accomplishments or requirements (such as unification or minimum defenses) attached to either, making the 'World Title' now quite entirely superfluous or alternatively just making the 'Super Title' just a 'world' title with fewer mandatory requirements.

Seriously... you couldn't make this **** up.

[Marchegiano]

Your timeline's a little off although the WBA themselves do credit Lennox with coming up with the idea for similar reasons to those you state - in short that the mandatory demands of unified champions to defend multiple titles were unduly onerous and in fact sometimes preventing bigger fights from being made.

https://www.wbaboxing.com/wba-super-...-championships



However, the 'Super' Champion status dates all the way back to December 2000 with Roy at LHW, folowed by Tsyzu (Feb 2001), Hopkins in Sept 2001 and DLH and Mayorga (as 'unified' champions in 2002) and there have been various iterations dating from that time, with it sometimes being called 'unified' champion, sometimes 'Super'. The Wiki page makes some interesting reading since some brave soul has taken it upon themselves to divide the WBAs lineages down into 'Primary' and 'Secondary' (Primary was the 'World' title up until they introduced the 'Super' and 'unified' titles, at which point the 'World' title became the secondary title unless there was no incumbent 'Super' titlist).. cong**** to whichever mfer put in the work for that update cos it wasn't like that a year or so ago when I last looked at that Wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_champions

Until 2009 the 'Super' champion status was only granted to unified Champions, but at some point in 2009 that was changed to making any champion with 5 defenses or more eligible for elevation and removing the necessity for the incumbent to be a unified Champion - the only immediately affected Boxer was Felix Sturm (who it is also alleged offered bribes to the WBA), although several others have subsequently benefited from the rule. Incidentally there is a strange requisite that MWs required 10 defenses for elevation which must have been brought in subsequent to Sturm's elevation although I've been unable to establish precisely when.

Clearly the 5 (or 10 for MW) defenses rule would imply that the 'Super' title - or staus if you prefer - would not be trnasferable in the ring, ie you couldn't 'Win' it by beating the incumbent since you wouldn't have the requisite number of defenses, but this absurd rule also quickly went out the window when it had served it's purpose and now we have a situation where both the world and super titles exist alongside each other with no special accomplishments or requirements (such as unification or minimum defenses) attached to either, making the 'World Title' now quite entirely superfluous or alternatively just making the 'Super Title' just a 'world' title with fewer mandatory requirements.

Seriously... you couldn't make this **** up.

I feel like you added details but I don't understand why you're claiming my chronology is off. Lennox-Ruiz is before December 2000. I really could have stopped there tbh and felt like excluding everyone but HW just simplified the story a bit.

I'm really not trying to argue, it just seems like everything you said fits comfortably into what I said outside of explicitly expressing it doesn't. More than, but not out of order. If it's out of order I don't understand where or why. Obviously I need to because this isn't going to be the last time someone asks about super.

[Ricardi]

WBA regular=PBC belt. The PBC fighters just get a new one made for them whenever they want to avoid a legit threat. It increases the number of cherry pick fights and makes it easier for somebody like Tank to never face the best



^^^ In this guy's head, Taylor is actually ducking Tank

You can put this in your sig, if Tank tries to enforce the mandatory vs Taylor after this, I'll paypal you $100. It's not even a bet as you don't have to do anything when proven wrong, I'm happy to commit to giving away the money as I know there's 0% chance Tank wants the fight. How the hell is a Tank fan questioning the balls of a undisputed champion? Bizarre. Tank loves the meaningless WBA trinkets but not facing the real champ, didn't even have the balls to face Machado he had to bribe the WBA to give him the belt instead.

Do you mean like Tank was cornered because of all the talent at 135 so he went down to 130 to fight a featherweight and now is going up to 140 for a guy who won a vacant paper title by robbery? It's bad enough he ran out of the hottest division in boxing, but now he's in a weaker division can he not just fight one of the top guys for once? He young doe lol...

Couldn't have said it better myself i'll add another $100 on my end too

[Citizen Koba]

I feel like you added details but I don't understand why you're claiming my chronology is off. Lennox-Ruiz is before December 2000. I really could have stopped there tbh and felt like excluding everyone but HW just simplified the story a bit.

I'm really not trying to argue, it just seems like everything you said fits comfortably into what I said outside of explicitly expressing it doesn't. More than, but not out of order. If it's out of order I don't understand where or why. Obviously I need to because this isn't going to be the last time someone asks about super.

Oh, just in the sense of omission, not that you got anything wrong. Apologies I wasn't trying to criticise your post, merely add to it, but reading back I guess I didn't phrase myself very well. I was simply pointing out that they started using the designation much earlier than Wlad getting it in 2011, in fact back with Roy in 2000. Although I know you never explicitly claimed Wlad was the first to get it, it might have been inferred since you didn't mention anyone else who got it earlier.

[Marchegiano]

Oh, just in the sense of omission, not that you got anything wrong. Apologies I wasn't trying to criticise your post, merely add to it, but reading back I guess I didn't phrase myself very well. I was simply pointing out that they started using the designation much earlier than Wlad getting it in 2011, in fact back with Roy in 2000. Although I know you never explicitly claimed Wlad was the first to get it, it might have been inferred since you didn't mention anyone else who got it earlier.

I was just a bit nervous because I done told that story all over and didn't like the idea of being wrong so many places. Y'all scared me.

[BoxingIsGreat]

I agree with you here, but if Taylor moves up and seeks out Crawford straight away, I'd certainly admire that ambition, and willingness to take on the challenge. So many boxers shy away from the hardest fights, Taylor seeks them out.

That's a good attitude in fighters. Overall, tho, I'm not seeing anything in Taylor. He has no style. He comes across as an arrogant POS as well.

[Nash out]

That's a good attitude in fighters. Overall, tho, I'm not seeing anything in Taylor. He has no style. He comes across as an arrogant POS as well.

He's winning some good fights though. I was really impressed with him somewhere in the middle rounds vs Prograis, where he dug out the win. I had him winning 115-113, and Ramirez is another good win, and Postol decent win. He's not massively likeable to me either, and I think lacks any real personality, but he really makes the most of what he has, and that can go a long way sometimes. There's more talented guys who aren't willing to dig it out.

[BoxingIsGreat]

He's winning some good fights though. I was really impressed with him somewhere in the middle rounds vs Prograis, where he dug out the win. I had him winning 115-113, and Ramirez is another good win, and Postol decent win. He's not massively likeable to me either, and I think lacks any real personality, but he really makes the most of what he has, and that can go a long way sometimes. There's more talented guys who aren't willing to dig it out.

I don't think Arum would allow a Bud fight. The call out doesn't sound genuine to me either. We'll see.

I liked the Prograis fight. Could have gone either way.

[BigZ44]

**** the WBA and their millions of belts