How good was Tony Ayala?

[lparm]

He started fighting before I was born and was in prison when I was a child but I've heard he was the next great jr mw/mw champion. But how good was he really?

[JFB629]

Some feel he was boxing greatest ever prospect, but not all.

I personally was rather impressed of what I saw of him in the amateur and Pro ranks, as also was Marvin Hagler, who done broadcasting for some of his earlier fights.

Ayala was born to be a fighter. Tony Ayala Sr. raised all four of his sons to be fighters. Besides Ayala, Mike his brother became the most accomplished of the fighting Ayala brothers, and is best known for his classic war against Danny “Little Red” Lopez in The Ring magazine ’s 1979 “Fight of the Year.”

Ayala started boxing at the age of 5 after watching his brothers in a Texas amateur tournament. He was a sensational amature. Ayala was a two-time National Junior Olympics champion at 156 pounds in 1977-78.

In 1979 he won the National Golden Gloves middleweight (165 lbs) crown when he defeated hard punching Lamont Kirkland at just 16 years of age in the final, in one of the most exciting amature bouts of all time.

Kirkland would go on to win the Golden Gloves the year later and go on to be a big puncher in the pro ranks.

Promoter Bob Arum and legendary trainer Angelo Dundee both said he had the potential to be perhaps one of boxing's greatest fighters.

But a incredible story about Ayala is at just 14 years of age, he licked then WBA Welterweight Champion Jose “Pipino” Cuevas.

Cuevas was known for being hard on sparring partners and was known for breaking bones in sparring sessions. Ayala do was fearless, and his sparring session in San Antonio with Cuevas is still the stuff of legends.

Here's some insight into the sparring session.

''In 1992, Knockout Magazine, which was published three times per year by G.C. London Publishing Associates, released a gem of a publication about knockout artists. Included in the edition were profiles of Bob Foster, Earnie Shavers, Alfonso Zamora, Pipino Cuevas, George Foreman, and Tony Ayala Jr. Superb boxing scribe Phil Berger did a great piece on Ayala entitled “The Odyssey of Tony Ayala Jr.: The Rage of the Fighter, The Destruction of The Man.” Berger perfectly captured the essence and action of El Torito’s infamous sparring session with Cuevas.

Berger clearly pointed out that Tony Sr. was reluctant to allow his teenage son in with a brutal punching champion like Cuevas, but Tony Jr. contended that Cuevas wouldn't be able to hurt him, and insisted on the sparring match. Berger describes Tony Sr.’s version of the action after his son talked him into arranging the match.

“Well, word got out. The gym was packed that day with spectators. And for the first two rounds, it was nip and tuck, man against boy. At the end of the second round, I asked him, ‘Torito, is he hurting you?’ He says no to me, ‘he may be a world champion, but he ain’t sh** to me.’ And he went out and kicked his butt the next round.”

Naturally, a father might embellish on his son’s accomplishments, but Berger was careful and astute to mention that Tony Sr. wasn’t the only person in the gym who saw it that way.

“San Antonio fight promoter, Tony Padilla, who has had his differences with the Ayalas, was there the afternoon Cuevas and young Tony went at it. He remembers Lupe Sanchez, Pipino’s manager, saying to Cuevas afterward, ‘Aren’t you ashamed --- a 14-year-old boy doing that to you?’ And Pipino, Padilla said, was muttering ‘Increible, increible’ – which is incredible in English.”

He turned Pro at 17 years of age. And he won his first 21 bouts and was a top 5 rated fighter at 154lb. Wins included dangerous, and unpredictable Mario Maldonado. Robbie Epps, and former world title challager Carlos Maria del Valle Herrera.

What impresses me most about Ayala was how relxed he was in a prizering. Barry Tompkins compared him to Jake LaMotta, but with better instincts. Ferdie Pacheco compared him to Roberto Duran because of the relentless ferocity of his attack.

But Ayala could do a little bit of everything. At such a young age he could execute a shoulder roll off an incoming right and counter with his own right hand as well as a James Toney or Evander Holyfield.

During infighting, he would sometimes cross his arms in the style of the legendary Archie Moore, and then counter with a 4 or 5-punch head and body combination, pivot, and land another power combination that would paralyze his opponents.

You don't see many 18 Year old prospects do these kind of things at such a short stage in there career.

But as good as Ayala was, he was mentalliy unstable. He never loved the sport of Boxing and was forced into from a early age by his Father. While a Pro he done drugs including herion, and was a loose cannon to say the least.

On the verge of a fights with WBA belt holder Davey Moore, and Roberto Duran. Ayala was convicted of **** and was given a 15-35 year sentence in the New Jersey penal system. His record stood at 22-0 with 19 KO's.

It was always going to happen. Ayala was out of control, He reached an out of court settlement in a sexual assault case when he was only 15-years-old. Just months prior to the aforementioned ****, he was arrested while wandering intoxicated in a neighbor’s home.

All this potential was down the drain. Who knows if he would of reached his potential, due to his lack of love for the sport and dedication to it. We will never know.......

Manager Lou Duva claims he cried for days when Ayala was jailed, and was deeply upset.

He made a comeback in 1999. When released from Jail. Ayala claimed he was a new person. After winning his first four fights, there was talk of big money fights with the likes of Hopkins and De La Hoya.

But all this came to a end when he was stopped by Luis Ramon Campas, not being able to come out for the the 9th round.

He had five more fights which included a stoppage loss to medicore Anthony Bonsante. In 2004, Ayala was aimless. His boxing career was basically over, and career prospects appeared elusive.

He was arrested for speeding, driving without a license, and possessing drug paraphernalia in his car. Ayala was sentenced to 10 years in prison for violating the terms of his probation.

[mrlopez]

Some feel he was boxing greatest ever prospect, but not all. I personally was very impressed of what I saw of him in the amature and pro ranks, as also was Marvin Hagler, who done broadcasting for some of his earlier fights.

Ayala was born to be a fighter. Tony Ayala Sr. raised all four of his sons to be fighters. Besides Ayala, Mike his brother became the most accomplished of the fighting Ayala brothers, and is best known for his classic war against Danny “Little Red” Lopez in The Ring magazine ’s 1979 “Fight of the Year.”

Ayala started boxing at the age of 5 after watching his brothers in a Texas amateur tournament. He was a sensational amature. Ayala was a two-time National Junior Olympics champion at 156 pounds in 1977-78. In 1979 he won the National Golden Gloves middleweight (165 lbs) crown when he defeated hard punching Lamont Kirkland at just 16 years of age in the final, in one of the most exciting amature bouts of all time.

He may have very well went to the 1980 Olympic Games, but USA boycotted them.

Kirkland would go on to win the Golden Gloves the year later and go on to be a big puncher in the pro ranks.

Promoter Bob Arum and legendary trainer Angelo Dundee both said he had the potential to be perhaps one of boxing's greatest fighters.

But a incredible story about Ayala is at just 14 years of age, he licked then WBA Welterweight Champion Jose “Pipino” Cuevas.

Cuevas was known for being hard on sparring partners and was known for breaking bones in sparring sessions. Ayala do was fearless, and his sparring session in San Antonio with Cuevas is still the stuff of legends.

Here's some insight into the sparring session.

''In 1992, Knockout Magazine, which was published three times per year by G.C. London Publishing Associates, released a gem of a publication about knockout artists. Included in the edition were profiles of Bob Foster, Earnie Shavers, Alfonso Zamora, Pipino Cuevas, George Foreman, and Tony Ayala Jr. Superb boxing scribe Phil Berger did a great piece on Ayala entitled “The Odyssey of Tony Ayala Jr.: The Rage of the Fighter, The Destruction of The Man.” Berger perfectly captured the essence and action of El Torito’s infamous sparring session with Cuevas.

Berger clearly pointed out that Tony Sr. was reluctant to allow his teenage son in with a brutal punching champion like Cuevas, but Tony Jr. contended that Cuevas wouldn't be able to hurt him, and insisted on the sparring match. Berger describes Tony Sr.’s version of the action after his son talked him into arranging the match.

“Well, word got out. The gym was packed that day with spectators. And for the first two rounds, it was nip and tuck, man against boy. At the end of the second round, I asked him, ‘Torito, is he hurting you?’ He says no to me, ‘he may be a world champion, but he ain’t sh** to me.’ And he went out and kicked his butt the next round.”

Naturally, a father might embellish on his son’s accomplishments, but Berger was careful and astute to mention that Tony Sr. wasn’t the only person in the gym who saw it that way.

“San Antonio fight promoter, Tony Padilla, who has had his differences with the Ayalas, was there the afternoon Cuevas and young Tony went at it. He remembers Lupe Sanchez, Pipino’s manager, saying to Cuevas afterward, ‘Aren’t you ashamed --- a 14-year-old boy doing that to you?’ And Pipino, Padilla said, was muttering ‘Increible, increible’ – which is incredible in English.”

He turned Pro at 17 years of age. And he won his first 21 bouts and was a top 5 rated fighter at 154lb. Wins included dangerous, and unpredictable Mario Maldonado. Robbie Epps, and former world title challager Carlos Maria del Valle Herrera.

What impresses me most about Ayala was how relxed he was in a prizering. Barry Tompkins compared him to Jake LaMotta, but with better instincts. Ferdie Pacheco compared him to Roberto Duran because of the relentless ferocity of his attack.

But Ayala could do a little bit of everything. At such a young age he could execute a shoulder roll off an incoming right and counter with his own right hand as well as a James Toney or Evander Holyfield.

During infighting, he would sometimes cross his arms in the style of the legendary Archie Moore, and then counter with a 4 or 5-punch head and body combination, pivot, and land another power combination that would paralyze his opponents.

But as good as Ayala was, he was mentalliy unstable. He never loved the sport of Boxing and was forced into from a early age by his Father. While a Pro he done drugs including herion, and was a loose cannon.

On the verge of a fights with WBA belt holder Davey Moore, and Roberto Duran. Ayala was convicted of **** and was given a 15-35 year sentence in the New Jersey penal system. His record stood at 22-0 with 19 KO's.

It was always going to happen. Ayala was out of control, He reached an out of court settlement in a sexual assault case when he was only 15-years-old. Just months prior to the aforementioned ****, he was arrested while wandering intoxicated in a neighbor’s home.

All this potential was down the drain. Who knows if he would of reached his potential, due to his lack of love for the sport and dedication to it. We will never know...

Manager Lou Duva claims he cried for days when Ayala was jailed, and was deeply upset.

He made a comeback in 1999. When released from Jail. Ayala claimed he was a new person. After winning his first four fights, there was talk of big money fights with the likes of Hopkins and De La Hoya.

But all this came to a end when he was stopped by Luis Ramon Campas, not being able to come out for the the 9th round.

He had five more fights which included a stoppage loss to medicore Anthony Bonsante. In 2004, Ayala was aimless. His boxing career was basically over, and career prospects appeared elusive.

He was arrested for speeding, driving without a license, and possessing drug paraphernalia in his car. Ayala was sentenced to 10 years in prison for violating the terms of his probation.

When could have been or what if's are talked about in the sport of Boxing, Ayala always comes into my head.

Great post, Ayala was a beast and definitely had the potential to be one of the best ever......My Jefe, Tios, Abuelo still talk about how good he was and what he could have become....

[cotto16]

Ubelivable talent and prospect him and campas is a war!

[cotto16]

..............................

[TheGreatA]

He was a prospect but never proved to be anything more than that.

For example Charlie Weir, who was KO'd by Davey Moore, beat many of the same opponents that Ayala beat but in more devastating fashion.

[cotto16]

He was a prospect but never proved to be anything more than that.

For example Charlie Weir, who was KO'd by Davey Moore, beat many of the same opponents that Ayala beat but in more devastating fashion.

what about beating cuevas up in sparring session at just 14 or winning the national goden gloves at 16, or hagler singing his praises?

[PensionKiller]

what about beating cuevas up in sparring session at just 14 or winning the national goden gloves at 16, or hagler singing his praises?

Fighters aren't judged by that. They are judged by their record.

[PensionKiller]

but great a made out like he was just a average prospect when he wasnt.

To tell you the truth, this was before my time, so I can't comment on how good he was. I'm just saying that it is not a solid argument to talk about that sparring session or his amaetuer career and making him out to be more than that.

Yes it is an indication, like with a lot of pro's, they have great AM records, but the pro game is a lot more difficult. You have to aim to be the best you can be, and aim to do everything the right way. 1 per cent can make the difference at world level.

[Calilloyd]

He was a prospect but never proved to be anything more than that.

For example Charlie Weir, who was KO'd by Davey Moore, beat many of the same opponents that Ayala beat but in more devastating fashion.

That's exactly how I see it. He was also knocked down and hurt badly by Journeyman Mario Maldonaldo. I think Ayala would have had success but I don't think he would have beaten the elite fighters(Leonard,Hagler, Hearns,Duran,Benitez). The fact that his career was cut short has made him somewhat overrated.