Measured Against All Time: Roy Jones Jr.

[crold1]

i couldnt agree more, im 31, going on 32, so i remember the early and late 90's, and i could never recall Dariusz demanding a fight with Roy

Dude, you just didn't understand it because it was in German. Benn was far from a has been BTW. He was still quite good through 96 and might have peaked at Super Middle from 93-95.

Otherwise, you're basically agreeing with me so good post. LOL

lol, i dont know if your agreeing with me or disagreeing with me, but the Boxers writers association had him as the fighter of the decade in the 90's, and pernell whitaker had lost to de la hoya, and trinidad, Jones didnt have a legitmate loss til 2004.

As noted, others saw Pernell there. Counting a couple late losses (and DLH was arguably not a loss) balances out when you figure Jones didn't do much from 90-92 as he built. Their best years in the 90s favor Pea because Pea's prime was 90-95.

[jayhova29]

Dude, you just didn't understand it because it was in German. Benn was far from a has been BTW. He was still quite good through 96 and might have peaked at Super Middle from 93-95.

Otherwise, you're basically agreeing with me so good post. LOL

i got you, you seem to know about the sport, where are you from, new jersey here.

[crold1]

i got you, you seem to know about the sport, where are you from, new jersey here.

Cali originally.

[Iceta]

The article that Jake Donovan wrote a couple weeks ago was kind of disrespectful to Roy Jones compared to this one. But it had some legit points to it. It talks about how Roy Jones is trying to take a short cut to improving his legacy more by trying to fight for the IBO belt with Danny Green. You don't see Bernard Hopkins going after Danny Green do you? I don't think that Adamek and Hopkins will fight each other, but if Hopkins stepped foot in that division, you better believe it would be for the intention of fighting Adamek. Donovan's story also mentioned of how Jones leaped over some challenges at 160 and 168 like Nunn, Benn, and Liles.

[jayhova29]

The article that Jake Donovan wrote a couple weeks ago was kind of disrespectful to Roy Jones compared to this one. But it had some legit points to it. It talks about how Roy Jones is trying to take a short cut to improving his legacy more by trying to fight for the IBO belt with Danny Green. You don't see Bernard Hopkins going after Danny Green do you? I don't think that Adamek and Hopkins will fight each other, but if Hopkins stepped foot in that division, you better believe it would be for the intention of fighting Adamek. Donovan's story also mentioned of how Jones leaped over some challenges at 160 and 168 like Nunn, Benn, and Liles.

i was under the impressing that the winner of Jones/lacy is the mandatory for green.

[Dan...]

Very good article over all, but there are a few glaring errors in your reporting.

#1. Lou De Valle did not legitimately knock down Roy Jones Jr. Roy's back foot clearly slipped. To describe it as a "nasty left hand" is simply dishonest.

#2. Eubanks and Benn's careers were for the most part played out by the time Roy arrived on the scene at 168, and... they fought exclusively in England, had little to no name recognition state side, and would have been nearly impossible to make a deal with due to their bloated ego's.

#3. James Toney would have never been a viable rematch as he wouldn't have been able to make any reasonably contracted weight.

#4. Its clearly documented that Roy Jones Jr. suffered from Shane Mosley syndrome throughout a large part of his career. Nobody would fight him. They either demanded outlandish sums of money for what would have undoubtedly been a loss, or simply avoided the matter all together in favor of making their own meaningless title defenses (Dariusz Michalczewski)

Its really bad that you bring up Dariusz who was about as willing to unify titles as Sven Ottke was, actual less so, since Ottke actually managed to pick up two straps.

Michael Nunn was also not a viable option. A fight with Roy would not be marketable after his loss to James Toney, especially since Roy took apart Toney, and Nunn had severely diminished as a force in the division.

Same thing goes for Hopkins, he was quite about Roy until Roy moved far enough up in weight that negotiations would be difficult enough as to never result in a fight between the two.

Roy's situation is difficult because he demonstrated the willingness to take the most difficult fights on offer to him such as Toney and Hill, but at the same time, he was forced to fight less difficult opposition when the big names would not fight him.

At one time HBO attempted to take over match making for Roy Jones jr only discover what Roy had been claiming all long was true. Nobody was willing to fight him for any reasonable sum of money.

Granted you did mention some of this in passing at the end of the article, it is not given enough emphasis as timing is everything when talking about what fights are made.

Very good post Shawn.

Just one thing though, I felt the Del Valle KD was legit.

[!! Shawn]

Very good post Shawn.

Just one thing though, I felt the Del Valle KD was legit.

It looks like that, but when you watch it again, Roy was stepping back from the punch and his back foot slipped on the canvas. No dis*****g he got hit with a punch, but it was obvious from the replay that he would have gone down with or without the punch.

[!! Shawn]

And yet there was after Hopkins making a title defense. I agree there wasn't a window after Roy moved up but do you really think that fight gets made? How? It took Roy years for Roy to work seriously with King.

And to say Eubank or Benn, selling out arenas while Jones sold out Indian casino bingo halls and people made believe he was a star, were beneath him is funny. Irrelevant to someone at the P4P level? From Toney to McCallum he fought Byrd, Paz, Thornton, Sosa (who was far more shot than Benn after the Williams wars), Lucas, and Brannon...how were they relevant?

You can excuse this stuff in a narrow focus but not when measured against the best who ever did it. They earned it. Roy got a lot of it proclaimed for him and it was his career choices that left the emperor with no clothes when 2004 shattered the visage. I give him the credit he earned. he was great despite the flaws but that those are flaws in this type analysis is beyond dispute.

I agree that it would have been nice to see Roy fight Eubanks and or Benn, but I still don't thin McClellan was ever a viable option. Roy didn't even beat Hopkins until after Gerald had beaten Julian Jackson.

I have to disagree with you on the drawing power of Benn and Eubank. True, they could fill arenas in the UK. However, we have seen many times how the ability to fill arenas in your home country does not translate into drawing power abroad.

For example, Anthony Mundine is perfectly capable of putting butts in seats in Australia, but nobody would claim that ability to fill venues would translate to into PPV sales, or the ability to put butts in seats in the US, because it wouldn't.

Same goes for the Benn and Eubank, they can fill seats in the UK, but I seriously doubt that would translate well into drawing power state side.

I wish it did, but when you go back throughout history, it rarely does...

[crold1]

I agree that it would have been nice to see Roy fight Eubanks and or Benn, but I still don't thin McClellan was ever a viable option. Roy didn't even beat Hopkins until after Gerald had beaten Julian Jackson.

I have to disagree with you on the drawing power of Benn and Eubank. True, they could fill arenas in the UK. However, we have seen many times how the ability to fill arenas in your home country does not translate into drawing power abroad.

For example, Anthony Mundine is perfectly capable of putting butts in seats in Australia, but nobody would claim that ability to fill venues would translate to into PPV sales, or the ability to put butts in seats in the US, because it wouldn't.

Same goes for the Benn and Eubank, they can fill seats in the UK, but I seriously doubt that would translate well into drawing power state side.

I wish it did, but when you go back throughout history, it rarely does...

We've seen folks travel for Hatton and Benn and Eubank were just as big (and would have been bigger vs. Jones). We can hash this out as to whose fault was whose with no answer...bottom line is that in defining a legacy these things count. At least in my opinion.

[KiloTeague]

Who Cares About Roy Jones Jr? He Was A Good Fighter Who Fought Cops, Teachers, Crossing Guards & Stock Brokers! Over Rated Is To Little Of A Word To Explain Roys Career! Great Fighter Who Didnt Want To Fight The Real Fight Till He was Done! Hes Floyd Mayweather Before Floyd! Thanks For Ruining A Sport For Us! Instead of fighting The Best And Cementing His Legacy All he Did Was Fight For $$$$$ And Fight Bums! Thats Why I Was So HAPPY To See Him Knocked the **** Out In Devestating Fashion By Tarver & Johnson! **** Roy Jones Jr Hopefully That Bum Lacy Knocks His Ass out Again And Leave Him Shaking Like A Fish Out Of Water!

Every fighter has ten fighters saying he never fought me. The fact is He beat the best guy at 160 then moved up in weight to take bigger challenges. Then he fought the best guy at 168 to fight bigger challenges. He won every major belt at 175 and then moved up to take bigger challenges. Then he won a heavyweight Title. Not thee, but A heavyweight title and since that hadn't been done in over 100 years....

All these lil fighters you guys say Roy ducked are like Pacman fighting Nate Cambell after he lost to Bradley. If Pac beats Bradley, there would be no point to fight Cambell. Thats what your asking of Roy. He beat Bernard and Toney, but then you want him to fight the guys that Bernard and Toney beat. It makes no sense.

The only argument you have is Darius but, thats one guy. Is that one fight going to make Roy's legacy any better. No Roy already beat guys that were bigger and better.

Any other fighter would have stayed at 160 his whole career, but only a very very very very very special fighter can go from 160 to win a heavyweight championship. I don't care what version it is.