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These avid boxing fans agree with me, concentrate mostly on the bolded parts:
thewinfella07-27-2009, 04:11 PM
I have just sat and watched Holyfield Tyson 2 and i have a couple of burning debatable points so lets go , here i go :
Was Evander purposefully leading with the head and head butting Tyson , i mean Evander is a stand up guy to call him a cheat would be ludicrous , but its hard to deny that Evander looked to be butting Tyson or looking to frustrate him with the use of the head , or was it a simple case of Tyson's come forward style was causing the collision of heads , either way in this fight almost every exchange there was a collision of heads ????
Secondly why did Tyson do it , (bite the ear) did he really beleive Evander was head butting him on purpose and lose his temper , or could he see no other way out but to go out cheeply , he did catch Holyfield with some bombs and again Holyfield stood firm , dis heartening for any fighter .
The way i see it was this (im welcoming the **** storm but this is how i seen it) for me Holyfield was ****ing cheating , whether he was meaning to butt Tyson is another story but he was leading with the head to gain an advantage over Tyson the evidence is over whelming , what Tyson did is unnaceptable , but for me he won the 1st round and looked in good shape i fancied him to KO Holy this time round and i feel he was robbed by illegal use of the head !!!!!!!
Thoughts ??????
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Danny07-27-2009, 04:20 PM
IMO, Holyfield did use his head to his advantage. The cut Tyson suffered over his left eye wasn't just a silly little nick, it was a full-on wound! Holyfield was butting, to a certain extent, deliberately!
However, there is not really an excuse good enough for what Mike did! Contrary to the general opinion that Tyson bit Holyfield rather than be defeated, I believe Mike just lost the plot, anger got the better of him! Tyson took licks from Douglas & in Holyfield 1, so there is the proof he's no coward!
Ironically, the third round was Tyson's best part of the fight up until that point when he bit Holyfield!
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lefthook3107-27-2009, 04:33 PM
I think it was a combination of both. Holyfield was definitely intentionally using his head, he cut Tyson over both eyes and it was called a headbutt. Tyson took the first one ok, but after the second butt, I think Tyson tried to even the score and bit Holyfield. He shouldnt have bitten Holyfield, he should have hit him low elbowed or headbutted back, he was in that fight. It was shaping up to be a good one. Tyson in his prime was one of the best at elbowing his opponents.
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finalfight07-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Holyfield definitely fought dirty and Tyson had lost much of his instinct to do the same within 'acceptable' confines at that point which led to his frustration and eventually his anger overwhelming him.
In a fair fight I believe even a depleted Tyson could have beaten Holyfield at that stage.
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Thread Stealer07-27-2009, 05:55 PM
Holyfield was a master of the "intentional accidental headbutt", but it was still wrong what Tyson did.
Other guys have fought dirty against Mike, and vice versa. Tyson didn't bite his previous opponents when they were fighting dirty. He may have elbowed back or threw in some cheap shots, but no biting, let alone 2 bites. Holyfield cut Tyson, was beating him, frustrating him, and took his punches well.
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_J_G_07-27-2009, 05:57 PM
It says in his doc/film, that Tyson believes he was intentionally using the head, and he just lost it and wanted to "destroy him and his corner".
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pasky200007-27-2009, 06:30 PM
Tyson was in tip top shape and I think he was ready for 12 hard rounds which he might have won given he didn't lose his composure and concentration like he did....
He was able to tag Holyfield with good shots but I mostly liked the fact he was moving his body and head again much more than in the previous fight..
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eze07-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Holyfield is a cheater.
A head butter and a drug user.
He was on the BALCO list!
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Scar07-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Tyson was definitely losing that fight and got frustrated with the excessive use of headbutts. A headbutt doesn't just open up cuts, it also hurts as much if not more than a clean punch. Tyson isn't the only one to complain about headbutts against Holyfield. Lewis, Rahman, Bowe, Holmes, Foreman, Ruiz, Toney and many others complained too. Still Tyson should have fought through it like the rest rather than retaliate with a bite.
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Money707-27-2009, 06:40 PM
i personally think holyfield did at times purposely headbutt tyson... and he's done that alot in past fights... it just threw mike off his game... and to some of the other posters who said "why didnt mike bite the other ppl who also fouled him?"... welll because no one headbutted mike during almost every clinch.... can u imagine gettin headbutted every time u threw a missed punch and went in for a clinch???.... u would lose your cool after the first 5 times... mike took plenty more than that before he retaliated...
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Powerman5507-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Yes Holyfield intentionally headbutted Tyson many times. There's no excuse for what Tyson did but Holyfield knew Tyson was a live wire and knew what buttons to press.
Why didn't the ref deduct a point from Holyfield?
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pasky200007-27-2009, 07:02 PM
There's also the fact that Holyfield was hitting and grabbing right away as soon as he got inside...He have been warned a little more in the 1st fight for that !
thewinfella07-27-2009, 04:11 PM
I have just sat and watched Holyfield Tyson 2 and i have a couple of burning debatable points so lets go , here i go :
Was Evander purposefully leading with the head and head butting Tyson , i mean Evander is a stand up guy to call him a cheat would be ludicrous , but its hard to deny that Evander looked to be butting Tyson or looking to frustrate him with the use of the head , or was it a simple case of Tyson's come forward style was causing the collision of heads , either way in this fight almost every exchange there was a collision of heads ????
Secondly why did Tyson do it , (bite the ear) did he really beleive Evander was head butting him on purpose and lose his temper , or could he see no other way out but to go out cheeply , he did catch Holyfield with some bombs and again Holyfield stood firm , dis heartening for any fighter .
The way i see it was this (im welcoming the **** storm but this is how i seen it) for me Holyfield was ****ing cheating , whether he was meaning to butt Tyson is another story but he was leading with the head to gain an advantage over Tyson the evidence is over whelming , what Tyson did is unnaceptable , but for me he won the 1st round and looked in good shape i fancied him to KO Holy this time round and i feel he was robbed by illegal use of the head !!!!!!!
Thoughts ??????
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Danny07-27-2009, 04:20 PM
IMO, Holyfield did use his head to his advantage. The cut Tyson suffered over his left eye wasn't just a silly little nick, it was a full-on wound! Holyfield was butting, to a certain extent, deliberately!
However, there is not really an excuse good enough for what Mike did! Contrary to the general opinion that Tyson bit Holyfield rather than be defeated, I believe Mike just lost the plot, anger got the better of him! Tyson took licks from Douglas & in Holyfield 1, so there is the proof he's no coward!
Ironically, the third round was Tyson's best part of the fight up until that point when he bit Holyfield!
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lefthook3107-27-2009, 04:33 PM
I think it was a combination of both. Holyfield was definitely intentionally using his head, he cut Tyson over both eyes and it was called a headbutt. Tyson took the first one ok, but after the second butt, I think Tyson tried to even the score and bit Holyfield. He shouldnt have bitten Holyfield, he should have hit him low elbowed or headbutted back, he was in that fight. It was shaping up to be a good one. Tyson in his prime was one of the best at elbowing his opponents.
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finalfight07-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Holyfield definitely fought dirty and Tyson had lost much of his instinct to do the same within 'acceptable' confines at that point which led to his frustration and eventually his anger overwhelming him.
In a fair fight I believe even a depleted Tyson could have beaten Holyfield at that stage.
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Thread Stealer07-27-2009, 05:55 PM
Holyfield was a master of the "intentional accidental headbutt", but it was still wrong what Tyson did.
Other guys have fought dirty against Mike, and vice versa. Tyson didn't bite his previous opponents when they were fighting dirty. He may have elbowed back or threw in some cheap shots, but no biting, let alone 2 bites. Holyfield cut Tyson, was beating him, frustrating him, and took his punches well.
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_J_G_07-27-2009, 05:57 PM
It says in his doc/film, that Tyson believes he was intentionally using the head, and he just lost it and wanted to "destroy him and his corner".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pasky200007-27-2009, 06:30 PM
Tyson was in tip top shape and I think he was ready for 12 hard rounds which he might have won given he didn't lose his composure and concentration like he did....
He was able to tag Holyfield with good shots but I mostly liked the fact he was moving his body and head again much more than in the previous fight..
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eze07-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Holyfield is a cheater.
A head butter and a drug user.
He was on the BALCO list!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scar07-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Tyson was definitely losing that fight and got frustrated with the excessive use of headbutts. A headbutt doesn't just open up cuts, it also hurts as much if not more than a clean punch. Tyson isn't the only one to complain about headbutts against Holyfield. Lewis, Rahman, Bowe, Holmes, Foreman, Ruiz, Toney and many others complained too. Still Tyson should have fought through it like the rest rather than retaliate with a bite.
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Money707-27-2009, 06:40 PM
i personally think holyfield did at times purposely headbutt tyson... and he's done that alot in past fights... it just threw mike off his game... and to some of the other posters who said "why didnt mike bite the other ppl who also fouled him?"... welll because no one headbutted mike during almost every clinch.... can u imagine gettin headbutted every time u threw a missed punch and went in for a clinch???.... u would lose your cool after the first 5 times... mike took plenty more than that before he retaliated...
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Powerman5507-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Yes Holyfield intentionally headbutted Tyson many times. There's no excuse for what Tyson did but Holyfield knew Tyson was a live wire and knew what buttons to press.
Why didn't the ref deduct a point from Holyfield?
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pasky200007-27-2009, 07:02 PM
There's also the fact that Holyfield was hitting and grabbing right away as soon as he got inside...He have been warned a little more in the 1st fight for that !
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