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Does anyone else think that perhaps the only reason that Ali beat Frazier in the second and third fights was because he was the smarter and more adaptable fighter? Furthermore, could it be that no matter when they fought the first time that Frazier would have beaten Ali simply because of his style?...Also remember that Ali knew exactly how Frazier would come at him in the second and third fights because for all of his merits, Frazier was a one dementional fighter.
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I find it interesting that Joe himself admitted in his biography that he was shot by the time of the third fight and wearing lenses to help his vision... he was virtually blind in one eye. Even so he believes he really won all three.
Who's actually seen the second? I've only seen clips of that one. -
I agree that Ali was much more adaptable than Frazier in the 2nd and 3rd fights. Ali's rope-a-dope played right into Frazier's hands in the first fight so he switched his style and simply machine gunned Joe each time he came in. And Frazier can use whatever excuses about his eye that he can muster. Nobody forced him to sign on for the last two fights with a bad right eye, and it was his responsibility to protect his good left eye from getting swollen. But to be fair to Frazier, he did win the only fight, of the three, that mattered, though I like their 3rd fight the best.Comment
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ali is the greatest plain and simpleComment
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nothing is that plain and simpleOriginally posted by SturmRulesComment
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Ali was not in very good shape in the first fight, as he had already started slacking in training before the exile, and couldn't cope with the work rate of a much better conditioned Frazier. By the second fight, Frazier's speed and reflexes had already started to go, and Ali was in pretty decent shape. In the third fight, Ali was pretty much in the same shape as in the second fight, and had been active, and Frazier probably shouldn't have even been fighting, in spite of engaging in a life and death struggle with Ali. Frazier's performance in that last fight was conditioning and will, pure and simple. Even the Frazier that in Frazier vs. Ali III would have given Lewis fits. I think it was basically all about Frazier being at his best in the first fight, I think even if Ali was in shape, he wouldn't have been the same Ali that beat Cleveland Williams, and Frazier would have been able to put too much pressure on Ali because of Ali's geatly diminished footwork. I don't think Ali "adapted", he just was in better shape in the second two, while Joe faded.Comment
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I find it fascinating and somewhat tragic watching Ali with Frazier in their first fight. Every time he taunts him, every time he plays pattycake with Frazier's face, it makes me cringe a little because I know that these playful tactics only get Ali hurt against a terminator of a man. He can not crack Frazier with any of these psychological tactics. It is amazing to watch Ali use these strategies for the first many rounds only to eventually realize that he was up against a different breed. By the time Ali realizes he needs to administer the fire to Frazier it is too late. He has taken too much punishment to the body and has slowed to the point where he cannot escape Joe's hooks to the head.Last edited by DuncanJL; 10-22-2005, 07:06 PM.Comment
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frazier was the ****. ali was the ****. those fights are great to watch no matter how many times i have seen them. ali clearly one the second and third fights and there was nothing wrong with frazier he was amazing in all three fights ali just out boxed him in the end.Comment
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That's a very thoughtful post, good K.Originally posted by DuncanJLComment
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Frazier himself said he was "shot" by the time of the third fight.Originally posted by blockheadComment
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