Lennox Lewis and the KLITCHKO BROTHERS are top 3 heavyweights of all time

[Southpaw Stinger]

you know what Knn,
you can saw and do whatever you want,
but no matter what you saw, history will always show

that Ali was the greatest HW of all time,
and there's nothing you or the kilts can do that will ever change that

Too true.

But wait... the Klits are bigger! They are taller and heavier! That is how real greatness is measured.

[knn]

Comparing Sam Peter to Muhammad Ali kills your credibility.

Ali kills his own credibility. Just look at him:

• Looks like a cruiser
• Has hands so heavy you think somebody pulls them down
• Clowns around by running away
• Down-pushes head of opponent ("Dirty Clay")
• Has no defense (except clowning around)
• Is a featherfist

How much worse can you get?

This is Ali vs Norton II. It's the 17th of Ali's 32 real heavyweight fights. This is Ali's PRIME, 7 years before his last fight. It's a torture to watch.

Let's not forget that Norton is 205lbs (= would be a cruiser fight nowadays).

The Ali who fought Berbick was probably faster than a prime Sam Peter.

I love it when someone mentions a loss-fight as a proof for the greatness of a boxer.

You try your best to pass off prime Ali as a cruiserweight despite him weighing over 210 lbs because you know he looked better on film than any fighter today.

What _his_ weight was is less relevant. His opponents are more relevant.

[knn]

you know what Knn,
you can say and do whatever you want,
but no matter what you saw, history will always show

that Ali was the greatest HW of all time,
and there's nothing you or the kilts can do that will ever change that

Hey, you not only can forsee the future, but Ali will be always thankful that you supported him sooo much... with 3 of your favorite smilies.

He will always remember you as the "Banana Kid".

[dans]

I mainly concentrate my efforts on Ali "The greatest talker" Ali because he *deserves* an unbiased look at his performance. There seem to be not many other who actually watch his fights.

You're comparing two completely different eras. Height and weight have nothing to do with boxing skill or the credibility of wins.

If in 30 years, the norm is guys like Valuev, does that devalue what the K brothers have done? No. They're great champions in their own right for their era. Just like Ali was a great of his era. This idea that Ali is somehow not as good because he beat fighters of a different era when heavyweights were smaller is ridiculous. It's as much and more about skill, speed, and footwork as power and dimensions. If you like the K brothers fine, be their fans. Carrying on an agenda about fighters that were active over 30 years is childish and sad.

By the way, I have seen a great number of Ali's fights.

[Levcon8686]

I am a big fan of the Klitschko brothers but even if Vitali could fight a prime Marciano for ex. and completely destroy him, because of the size differential its nothing to brag about really. In regards to Modern HWs vs. the old timers, it is not a matter of better but rather different. The standards are different, and the sport is in many ways different so its hard to make fair comparisons....the legends of the past are exactly that, anyway you look at it they are still legends.

This is the right answer. I'm sure in 100 years time there will be bigger, stronger, better conditioned fighters than today. That doesn't mean we should deny the Pacquaio's, Mayweather's and Hopkin's of this generation greatness for what they're doing right now.

[knn]

You're comparing two completely different eras. Height and weight have nothing to do with boxing skill or the credibility of wins.

If in 30 years, the norm is guys like Valuev, does that devalue what the K brothers have done? No. They're great champions in their own right for their era.

Yes, but this is offtopic.

The topic of the first post was Ali vs Valuev. Valuev would not shrink in the time machine. We are not comparing record achievements here. Of course Ali has a better record than Valuev (yet). But it doesn't mean he would win against Valuev.

Everything applies what I wrote about the "Military ATGs".

[Southpaw Stinger]

Ali kills his own credibility. Just look at him:[LIST][*]Looks like a cruiser[*]Has hands so heavy you think somebody pulls them down[*]Clowns around by running away[*]Down-pushes head of opponent ("Dirty Clay")[*]Has no defense (except clowning around)[*]Is a featherfist

[*]Looks like a cruiser - Which means what? Valuev looks like a testicle but I won't hold that against him. Remember, he's big! Yay!
[*]Has hands so heavy you think somebody pulls them down - And yet you won't find many faster hands in heavyweight history.
[*]Clowns around by running away - I think you need to find a definition of 'running away' as it doesn't include moving side to side, backwards and facing an opponent. One would have to turn one's back on someone and move quickly in the opposite direction before being deemed to be 'running away'
[*]Down-pushes head of opponent ("Dirty Clay") - Lots of fighters do that. If you can get away with it, why not?
[*]Has no defense (except clowning around) - And yet was only stopped once in his career by way of corner retirement. Not bad for someone with 'no defense'
[*]Is a featherfist - with many stoppage wins over HOF's.

[Dynamite Kid]

Just aswell that knn has this ALT to talk **** behind, because he would stain the reputation of his real account some of **** he is talking.

[dans]

Yes, but this is offtopic.

The topic of the first post was Ali vs Valuev. Valuev would not shrink in the time machine. We are not comparing record achievements here. Of course Ali has a better record than Valuev (yet). But it doesn't mean he would win against Valuev.

Everything applies what I wrote about the "Military ATGs".

A mid forties half dead Holyfield should've gotten a decision over Valuev, who should be in his prime. Holyfield is a former cruiserweight who fought as low as the high 170's and only weighed 214 against Valuev. Ali is taller, faster, heavier, and has greater reach than Holyfield. He would dominate Valuev and if he didn't knock him out it would be a shutout.

I'll wait for your response talking about Evan Fields and the fact that he's on steroids. Then you can continue to ramble on about different weights and heights of fighters and carry on your agenda to discredit fighters of other eras.

Your turn

[TheGreatA]

Ali kills his own credibility. Just look at him:

• Looks like a cruiser
• Has hands so heavy you think somebody pulls them down
• Clowns around by running away
• Down-pushes head of opponent ("Dirty Clay")
• Has no defense (except clowning around)
• Is a featherfist

So using movement to avoid punches is "clowning" for you. I guess we now know why you like today's stiff heavyweights, they sure don't "clown" around, they stand still as if their feet were in cement.

How much worse can you get?

This is Ali vs Norton II. It's the 17th of Ali's 32 real heavyweight fights. This is Ali's PRIME, 7 years before his last fight. It's a torture to watch.

Let's not forget that Norton is 205lbs (= would be a cruiser fight nowadays).

Seeing two well-conditioned athletes go toe-to-toe for 12 rounds without tiring sure is painful. Go ahead and watch Eddie Chambers vs Samuel Peter to ease the pain, two modern "big" heavyweights.

I love it when someone mentions a loss-fight as a proof for the greatness of a boxer.

The point was that even a shot, old Ali with Parkinson's was faster than the slow as molasses Samuel Peter.

What _his_ weight was is less relevant. His opponents are more relevant.

Sonny Liston 218 lbs
George Chuvalo 216 lbs
Cleveland Williams 210 lbs
Ernie Terrell 212 lbs

You're seriously trying to argue that Valuev would beat Ali. Think about that for a moment.