Ortiz not so kind words from Mosley and Oscar...

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

September has Mayweather-Marquez, that's their next big show but yeah, they don't really have anything big lined up for the rest of the year unless you count Pacquiao-Cotto, they have a minor stake in Pacquaio.

It was a huge blow to GBP, they were grooming 3 fighters to be big attractions, Guerrero, Kirkland and Ortiz. All 3 have suffered some type of setback in the past few months. Guerrero because of the Yordan fight where it looked like he wanted out, Kirkland because of his ******ity and now Ortiz because of his perceived breakdown. Ortiz was supposed to be the next big thing and the manner of the loss, more than the loss itself derailed those plans big time. Whether they can get him back on track we'll have to wait and see.

No one is better at building up a fighter than Top Rank, Bruce Trampler in particular is great at matchmaking.

I don't think the match was a bad match for him. It put him in there with a real threat but he has the tools to win that type f fight. he needed to use his superior boxing skills to keep maidana on the outside. He could have set up his straight left with his jab and then thrown some power punches but he was content to fight on the inside more like in a phone booth then in a ring. He got his back on the ropes and let the pressure fighter in the fight. There were some serious shots to the back of the head by Maidana and a ton of holding but the reff was allowing it with out penalty of points. Still GBP has took it on the chin with the injuries and what you call set backs I call disasters. kirland going to jail is a disaster for GBP. Guerrero whom I never thought much of to being with quitting the way he did in front of his home crowrd on a big under card hurt his reputation andf Ortiz well they had alot of good things to say about him and now it seems they are going to eat their words....that post fight interview was hidious.....Lefty

[Silencers]

I don't think the match was a bad match for him. It put him in there with a real threat but he has the tools to win that type f fight. he needed to use his superior boxing skills to keep maidana on the outside. He could have set up his straight left with his jab and then thrown some power punches but he was content to fight on the inside more like in a phone booth then in a ring. He got his back on the ropes and let the pressure fighter in the fight. There were some serious shots to the back of the head by Maidana and a ton of holding but the reff was allowing it with out penalty of points. Still GBP has took it on the chin with the injuries and what you call set backs I call disasters. kirland going to jail is a disaster for GBP. Guerrero whom I never thought much of to being with quitting the way he did in front of his home crowrd on a big under card hurt his reputation andf Ortiz well they had alot of good things to say about him and now it seems they are going to eat their words....that post fight interview was hidious.....Lefty

Maidana would give pretty much all the 140 pounders some sort of trouble, win or lose, he's a tough guy, crude but tough and he packs a punch, he's not one of those South Americans with a glitzy knockout ratio that turns out to be fabricated, he does pack a good punch.

But I agree with you that Ortiz could have won the fight behind his jab and boxing skills, when he jabbed and set his range, which he sort of did in the fourth, he was very effective but then he got away from that again in the fifth.

Ortiz wasn't exactly free of doing some illegal stuff himself, he also hit Maidana around the back of the head at times and was rubbing the top of his head into Maidana's face in the clinches. Ortiz did seem to get frustrated by Maidana's rough housing though and it shows his inexperience or his naive mindset where he thinks everyone will play by the rules. It just doesn't work that way in boxing.

I was pretty disappointed in Ortiz' corner to be honest, to my recollection I don't remember them telling him to set range or to pop his jab or to stop going crazy or any range of things to get him back on track. The one thing they kept saying over and over again was bend your hips and keep your hands up. And they did a bad job in between the fifth and the sixth IMO, they totally failed to get Ortiz' attention in the corner. I think Ortiz should find a new trainer honestly, this isn't just me blaming it on the trainer, it's just what I think he should do.

I think Ortiz can come back, whether he becomes a big star or not is really hard to say because of the way he seemed to just give up. But as they say in boxing you're only as good as your last fight, who knows? If he manages to overcome adversity next time he's in a tough situation and overcome it spectacularly, GBP and HBO could be right back on his bandwagon hyping him up again.

[Squabbles94806]

I still like Ortiz. Does anyone have an info about his amatuer background?

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

Maidana would give pretty much all the 140 pounders some sort of trouble, win or lose, he's a tough guy, crude but tough and he packs a punch, he's not one of those South Americans with a glitzy knockout ratio that turns out to be fabricated, he does pack a good punch.

But I agree with you that Ortiz could have won the fight behind his jab and boxing skills, when he jabbed and set his range, which he sort of did in the fourth, he was very effective but then he got away from that again in the fifth.

Ortiz wasn't exactly free of doing some illegal stuff himself, he also hit Maidana around the back of the head at times and was rubbing the top of his head into Maidana's face in the clinches. Ortiz did seem to get frustrated by Maidana's rough housing though and it shows his inexperience or his naive mindset where he thinks everyone will play by the rules. It just doesn't work that way in boxing.

I was pretty disappointed in Ortiz' corner to be honest, to my recollection I don't remember them telling him to set range or to pop his jab or to stop going crazy or any range of things to get him back on track. The one thing they kept saying over and over again was bend your hips and keep your hands up. And they did a bad job in between the fifth and the sixth IMO, they totally failed to get Ortiz' attention in the corner. I think Ortiz should find a new trainer honestly, this isn't just me blaming it on the trainer, it's just what I think he should do.

I think Ortiz can come back, whether he becomes a big star or not is really hard to say because of the way he seemed to just give up. But as they say in boxing you're only as good as your last fight, who knows? If he manages to overcome adversity next time he's in a tough situation and overcome it spectacularly, GBP and HBO could be right back on his bandwagon hyping him up again.

Anything is possible Silencers anything as we all know. But truly after the way he was talking I find it very hard to throw any more money in his direction if I was either one of those companies. He seems like a young kid who was talking breezy and not realy thinking about the words that were coming out of his mouth. I would have rathered see him just say Max I had a rough night the better man won and walk out of the ring like he was disappinted in himself. We all know know one wants to be punch drunk or end up like Muhammad Ali but to say it like that in front of the fans it is like saying well he hit me pretty god so i said fcuk it I ll quit and live to fight another day. These fans will pay to come see me again and you know what if I get put in there against another hard puncher and I get hit hard again I say fcuk it again....Bad for the sport....Lefty

[FeFist]

MMA? Fighting inside a cage elbows and knees I think Ortiz would **** his pants if he had to get in there with those rules

Funny that you bring up a sport where submission is a comon way of losing.......

[Silencers]

Anything is possible Silencers anything as we all know. But truly after the way he was talking I find it very hard to throw any more money in his direction if I was either one of those companies. He seems like a young kid who was talking breezy and not realy thinking about the words that were coming out of his mouth. I would have rathered see him just say Max I had a rough night the better man won and walk out of the ring like he was disappinted in himself. We all know know one wants to be punch drunk or end up like Muhammad Ali but to say it like that in front of the fans it is like saying well he hit me pretty god so i said fcuk it I ll quit and live to fight another day. These fans will pay to come see me again and you know what if I get put in there against another hard puncher and I get hit hard again I say fcuk it again....Bad for the sport....Lefty

For sure, him and GBP have to work very hard to put this behind them because the fans will be very hesitant to pay to watch him again but as you said, anything can happen in boxing. Israel Vazquez was slammed after the first Marquez fight, now he's regarded as one of the toughest men in boxing, Roberto Duran put the no mas fight with Leonard behind him with his destruction of Davey Moore so it's not impossible for them to salvage Ortiz' reputation, it will take a lot of work though.

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

For sure, him and GBP have to work very hard to put this behind them because the fans will be very hesitant to pay to watch him again but as you said, anything can happen in boxing. Israel Vazquez was slammed after the first Marquez fight, now he's regarded as one of the toughest men in boxing, Roberto Duran put the no mas fight with Leonard behind him with his destruction of Davey Moore so it's not impossible for them to salvage Ortiz' reputation, it will take a lot of work though.

Silencers not only the fact he cleary quit but the way he answered questions after the fight is where I see it being a bigger problem. The fact he said I was hurt bad and I don't feel the need to be taking this kind of punishment and then he pointed to his face and the mouse under his left eye. Saying he wants to be able to speak well when he gets older and he has a lot of thinking to do. Those things to me are worse then taking a knee like Cotto and worse then Duran saying no mas because he was frustrated. much worse then Oscar even quitting on his stool against PAC.....I mean we all saw Oscar had no answer for PAC in that fight. We obviously knew Victor could put this guy away if he fought smarter and took his time when he had him hurt.....The post fight interview to me was more damaging then the fact that he quit....Lefty

[Silencers]

Silencers not only the fact he cleary quit but the way he answered questions after the fight is where I see it being a bigger problem. The fact he said I was hurt bad and I don't feel the need to be taking this kind of punishment and then he pointed to his face and the mouse under his left eye. Saying he wants to be able to speak well when he gets older and he has a lot of thinking to do. Those things to me are worse then taking a knee like Cotto and worse then Duran saying no mas because he was frustrated. much worse then Oscar even quitting on his stool against PAC.....I mean we all saw Oscar had no answer for PAC in that fight. We obviously knew Victor could put this guy away if he fought smarter and took his time when he had him hurt.....The post fight interview to me was more damaging then the fact that he quit....Lefty

You're right, he pretty much admitted that he quit in the post fight interview, what he said there was a promoter's nightmare but as I said, I don't think his reputation is unrecoverable, it'll take a lot of hard work from GBP to gloss him over and it'll take hard work from Ortiz to show that he isn't a quitter, that he can persevere over adversity, whether they can actually do that or not we'll have to wait and see.

And about Cotto, he did say he had had enough of Margarito in that fight, but he didn't say it immediately after the fight, he said it a few weeks later when fans' emotions were calmer, of course su****ions about Margarito's wraps helps him out there.

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

Funny that you bring up a sport where submission is a comon way of losing.......

I am not a fan of MMA but there is a big difference between tapping out because someone has you in a choke hold or is about to break your arm off at the elbow....he took a few shots and was thrown to the ground he wasn't that badily hurt when he quit...He could have continued and held on possibly KTFO of the other guy Maidana....Lefty

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

You're right, he pretty much admitted that he quit in the post fight interview, what he said there was a promoter's nightmare but as I said, I don't think his reputation is unrecoverable, it'll take a lot of hard work from GBP to gloss him over and it'll take hard work from Ortiz to show that he isn't a quitter, that he can persevere over adversity, whether they can actually do that or not we'll have to wait and see.

And about Cotto, he did say he had had enough of Margarito in that fight, but he didn't say it immediately after the fight, he said it a few weeks later when fans' emotions were calmer, of course su****ions about Margarito's wraps helps him out there.

Silencers Cotto and Ortiz are two different animals...Cotto took a hell of alot more punishment off of Tony The Cement Mixer Margarito that night then ortiz did off of Maidana....If you look at the final knockdown I didn't see single punch pand I saw something to the body but it looked more like a push then a punch. he slid to his knees and got right up. He clearly could have continued and fought on. When I watch the Cotto magarito fight it looks to me that Cotto was finished and all that was left for him was to be severly hurt if he tried to continue. He was busted up pretty bad in the face and much more to the body where it really counts in the late rounds. he had been on his bicycle all night and he ran out of gas. Two different fights for me and two different fighters....Also Cotto did the smart thing and never said what Ortiz said in his post fight interview. Cotto was so beat up he couldn;t do a post fight interview.....Two different things. To me Ortiz would have quit against Clottey if he were in Cotto's position....Lefty