Just how good was Prince Naseem?

[muay]

Fair enough but you say Medina was shot. He beat Scott Harrison down the line for the world title.

I disagree that McCullough losing to Morales and Hamed devalues him as a FW...just about everyone mentioned on this thread would or did lose to these two.

On Robinson, McKenzie was also champ at Super Bantamweight and had come up through the same weight divisions as Espinosa, schooling Soto along the way. McMillan was a very talented fighter and only lost his title after dislocating his shoulder early in the fight.

Medina is something else he's like Lazarus of the boxing world. I can't believe this old man is still fighting, I'm not sure though if Mantecas can surprise us again.

[Cletus Funk]

Medina is something else he's like Lazarus of the boxing world. I can't believe this old man is still fighting, I'm not sure though if Mantecas can surprise us again.

Hehe . I agree, the guy's achieved alot given the talent at his disposal but I think he's done.

[muay]

Hehe . I agree, the guy's achieved alot given the talent at his disposal but I think he's done.

Against the present crop of talents at the featherweight...yeah, he's done.

[Brotherfromthehoods]

hamed was good but he got battered

[Sir_Jose]

Im sorry but some of this stuff is just flat out laghable.

lets get a couple things straight.


1) No one and I do mean NO ONE ducked Luisito Espinosa. Espinosa had his shot to fight Hamed and he LOST to Soto so Soto got the shot at Hamed. Just cause a fighter is Asain doesn't mean he was that great cause Espinosa was an above agerage fighter at best with one of the single worst chins of any fighter I have ever seen.

He didn't get his shot because when the oppertunity was in fron of him he couldn't come through and if you want me to believe the highly popular Philpino didn't get a fair shake and was robbed in the Phillipines im gonna have to call bull**** on that one.

2) Tom Johnson was thought by everyone to be the best featherweight in the world when he fought Hamed and Kevin Kelley was thought of by everyone in the boxing world as the #2 guy in the division when the fight with Hamed happend. Anyone who would try and deny this has no knowledge of what actually happend.

To say Alejandro Gonzales or Espinosa were the best is a flat out joke and thats the only word to describe that opinion a joke.Hell Gonzales wasn't even champion anymore by the time Hamed came onto the scene.

There are people in this thread actually claimg Hamed ducked Freddy Norwood thats how bad this is getting.

[muay]

Hamed was already WBO and IBF champ when Espinosa fought Rios, Hamed would then proceed to TKO ex-champ Kevin Kelley and beat WBA kingpin Wilfredo Vasquez. At this time, Hamed dropped his IBF belt and the WBA belt somehow was unofficially his. So, that leaves WBC champ Espinosa as the only other reigning featherweight champ that time (circa April '98 onwards). It was during this time that I read from various local newspapers that Espinosa is chasing a big payday against Hamed, sadly these papers have no websites yet that time to get some reference articles. Anyway, after Espi TKO'd McKinney (this guy beat Junior Jones who in turn beat Barrera twice!), i heard Ronnie Nathanielsz (a writer of BoxingScene) in his commentary say that Hamed was afraid of Espinosa and is ducking him. Anyone of you with old Espinosa fight tapes can confirm this. Also, i read in some local newspaper that Riath Hamed allegedly offered Espi to promote his fights as a ploy to keep him off his brother, after seeing Espi's impressive win over McKinney.
Other boxing sites are of the same opinion that Naz should fight Luisito http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/9805/two.htm who at this point was even listed in one boxing site's P4P list http://insideboxing.com/poundforpound.html
Hamed would proceed to fight top British featherweight Paul Ingle and Espinosa next should he win over Cesar Soto. Well, Espi would later lost his WBC belt to Soto who then would fight Hamed in a wrestling match. Hamed lifted the prestigious green belt and would later drop it like a hot potato. This is strange. He has two options on that belt, 1) fight the mandatory or 2) fight Espinosa (who was promised another shot by WBC prez Sulaiman upon the influence of Rudy Salud). In my opinion, Hamed considered the WBC mandatory challenger Guty Espadas Jr. (a tall & natural featherweight) and Espinosa as both no-names and High Risk/Low Reward fights and opted to fight then IBF Superbantam champ Vuyani Bungu, safer and yet another small fighter moving up in weight. SJ a writer of WorldofBoxing.com has the same opinion http://p210.ezboard.com/fworldofboxi...icID=342.topic

At this point, Hamed's hitlist alleges that Espinosa is "cagey at fightin Naz".

http://olympia.fortunecity.com/michaels/460/preview.html

Smoke screen.

[muay]

There are people in this thread actually claimg Hamed ducked Freddy Norwood thats how bad this is getting.

Those Fabulous Feathers
by Darius Ortiz
March 15, 2003

http://www.boxingobserver.com/article.php?cat=theweighin&id=10&pagenumber=2

Naseem Hamed's reign over the featherweight class is remembered more for the fighters he ducked, rather than those he fought. From 1997 until the Barrera fight, it can be argued that Hamed never defended his title against the toughest opponent; most didn't even consider Barrera a worthy challenger! Most boxing writers felt Naseem would walk through the Mexico City star's mauling offense and flatten him with the first straight left that landed. Very few could have imagined the 'new' Barrera would outbox and out-fox Naz for twelve rounds, replacing the left hook to the body with a pulsating jab and a slick uppercut. Had 'Prince' known which Barrera he'd be sharing the ring beforehand with, he would have mostly likely skipped that fight as well.

No one's saying Naseem's era of featherweights rivaled that of Salvador Sanchez' or Willie Pep's; all I'm saying is 'The Prince' fought Kevin Kelley, Wilfredo Vasquez, Paul Ingle and Vuyani Bungu, when he should really have been challenging Luisito Espinosa, Junior Jones (back in 1997, fresh off consecutive wins over Barrera), Freddie Norwood and Juan Manuel Marquez.

[Verbl_Kint]

Just how good was Hamed?

Not good enough. The Prince was overrated, overhyped and overpaid.

[Sir_Jose]

My god, could you have found more shamelessy bias articles?

Old Espinosa tapes? You mean likes the ones against Juan Jose Estrada,Israel Contreras,Alejandro Gonzalez you know...the ones where he was being brutally KO'ed or maybe your talking about a tape of his fight with Cesar Soto, just the one fight he had to win to get his shot to fight Hamed. Hey what happend in that fight?....Oh thats right.

You actually think that sites p4p list has an ounce of credability? that list was one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen. As of January they didn't even have Bernard Hopkins rated in there top 10, but put Gatti at 8th. They have Hopkins in now, but at 4 with James-freaking-Toney ahead of him.


they also had Miguel Angel Gonzales rated in the top ten when they has Espinosa rated. That tells you right there how flat out awful they are.

If you knew anything about the situation Junior Jones and Hamed were going to fight eachother. They were on the same card for Hamed's American debut and thats how HBO was marketing Hamed/Jones, but what happend?...Oh thats right Junior Jones was KO'ed that night.

Freddie Norwood was the John Ruiz of the Featherweight division, he won by wrestling not boxing. His 1st fight with Cermeno was so bad HBO refused to show it, pretty much everyone on the planet thought he lost to Marquez. His fight with Gainer is one of the most disgusting boxing matches I have ever seen.

[miron_lang]

Let's see the chronology here :

Dec. 11, 1995 - Espinosa UD Mantecas Medina to become WBC featherweight champ
Sept. 30, 1995 - Hamed TKO8 Steve Robinson, to become WBO featherweight champ
March 1, 1996 - Espinosa KO4 Cobrita Gonzalez, 1st defense (WBC)
March 16, 1996 - Hamed TKO8 Said Lawal, 1st defense (WBO)
July 6, 1996 - Espinosa UD Cesar Soto, 2nd defense (WBC)
June 8, 1996 - Hamed TKO2 Daniel Alicea, 2nd defense (WBO)
August 31, 1996 - Hamed TKO 11 Mantecas Medina, 3rd defense (WBO)
October 2, 1996 - Espinosa TKO8 Nobutoshi Hiranaka, 3rd defense (WBC)
November 9, 1996 - Hamed TKO2 Daniel Molina, 4th defense (WBO)
February 8, 1997 - Hamed TKO8 Tom Johnson, 5th defense (WBO) and annexed the IBF featherweight belt
May 3, 1997 - Hamed KO1 Billy Hardy, 6th defense (WBO), 1st (IBF)
May 17, 1997 - Espinosa TD8 Mantecas Medina, 4th defense (WBC)
June 19, 1997 - Hamed TKO2 Juan Cabrera, 7th defense (WBO), 2nd (IBF)
October 11, 1997 - Hamed KO7 Jose Badillo, 8th defense (WBO)
December 6, 1997 - Espinosa TKO6 Carlos Rios, 5th defense (WBC)
December 19, 1997 - Hamed KO4 Kevin Kelley, 9th defense (WBO)
April 18, 1998 - Hamed TKO7 Wilfredo Vazquez, 10th defense (WBO)
August 15, 1998 - Espinosa TD11 Juan Carlos Ramirez, 6th defense (WBC)
October 31, 1998 - Hamed UD12 Wayne McCullough, 11th defense (WBO)
November 11, 1998 - Espinosa TKO2 Kennedy McKinney, 7th defense (WBC)
April 10, 1999 - Hamed KO11 Paul Ingle, 12th defense (WBO)
May 15, 1999 - Espinosa (L)UD12 Cesar Soto, lost WBC featherweight belt
October 22, 1999 - Hamed UD12 Cesar Soto, annexed WBC featherweight belt

So who fought 90% of the top featherweights of the 90's here?
Espinosa - Medina(51-6-0), Gonzalez(37-3-0), Soto(43-6-2), Rios(39-0-1), Ramirez(14-0-0)
Hamed - Medina(52-7-0), Kelley(47-1-2), Soto(54-7-2), Vazquez(50-7-2)

Espinosa beat-up Medina and Soto first before Hamed fought them, and he TKO'd Cobrita Gonzalez who TKO'd Kelley. He never had the chance to lay his hands on Vazquez (who was WBA champ that time), IMO he would've handled him the same way he did to Kennedy McKinney who were small featherweights (they're natural 118~122 lbers).

All I'm saying here is, Hamed wasn't the best featherweight during the 90's, there was another champ named Luisito Espinosa who was unknown but nonetheless a very good fighter also. Perhaps with more skills than the very popular Prince Hamed. Hamed has more fights obviously, but that's a no brainer, Espinosa is based in the Phils. and getting fights here in Asia is a lot more difficult. BTW, it is not BS that Hamed avoided Espinosa and Riath Hamed offered to promote his fights, i heard it from the lips of Mr. Ronnie Nathanielsz, a writer of this site, commentating in one of Espinosa's fights.

Going back to the topic of this thread, i rate Naseem Hamed an eight (8), annexing the WBO, WBC & IBF belts is something.

I Agree !