Money vs. Legacy

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Check out the boxing history section. There was recently something about Dempsey with some good debating.

Johnson avoided every other black fighter during his reign, reason being black vs black made no money since people did not care to see Johnson losing to another black guy.

Robinson priced himseld out (the irony!) of a fight with Charley Burley, when it was already set.

Leonard did a number of things you should already be informed about.

[glidesmack]

If you fight like mike tyson or jack dempsey you're going to get paid and you're going to be famous.

[Thread Stealer]

I might be wrong, but I'm sure these fighters fought the best as well. I don't really hear people saying these fighters should have fought so & so or so & so.

Jack Dempsey didn't fight the best around when he was champ. It wasn't necessarily his fault, at least not later on when he did sign to fight Willis and the fight fell apart, but earlier on he was quoted as saying he'd "pay attention to colored fighters". He was inactive for much of his reign, and taking part in well-paid exhibitions. He gets ****ted on repeatedly for never facing Harry Wills. Not just by boxing forum people, but by historians like Jack Newfield (RIP).

Jack Johnson didn't fight the top black fighters after he won the title. He fought them before it, but there was no money in them after he won the title, so except for that one farce of a fight with Jim Johnson, he only fought the white contenders who would pay more.

Leonard got some crap in the late 80s for not facing certain dangerous middleweights like McCallum, Nunn, and Kalambay. He was taking bigger money fights. He also gets **** all the time for not fighting Pryor by people who watch too much Legendary Nights.

Ray Robinson gets some criticism for pricing himself out of a Charley Burley fight. He priced himself out of many fights, actually. He was notorious for it.

Of course, when your resume is as deep as Robinson's is, or you have a list of wins over the likes of Duran, Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler like Leonard does, you're more likely to get a pass for whom you didn't fight.

But of course nowadays with all the media, offers that are heard about, fighters "calling out" (like that means **** all anyway) other fighters, etc....fighters are going to get nitpicked more and criticized for not fighting certain opponents.

[Chr0nic]

fighters of the past fought the best because they did'nt have a choice if they wanted to get paid more than 50$

[sandyvahra]

Jack Dempsey didn't fight the best around when he was champ. It wasn't necessarily his fault, at least not later on when he did sign to fight Willis and the fight fell apart, but earlier on he was quoted as saying he'd "pay attention to colored fighters". He was inactive for much of his reign, and taking part in well-paid exhibitions. He gets ****ted on repeatedly for never facing Harry Wills. Not just by boxing forum people, but by historians like Jack Newfield (RIP).

Jack Johnson didn't fight the top black fighters after he won the title. He fought them before it, but there was no money in them after he won the title, so except for that one farce of a fight with Jim Johnson, he only fought the white contenders who would pay more.

Leonard got some crap in the late 80s for not facing certain dangerous middleweights like McCallum, Nunn, and Kalambay. He was taking bigger money fights. He also gets **** all the time for not fighting Pryor by people who watch too much Legendary Nights.

Ray Robinson gets some criticism for pricing himself out of a Charley Burley fight. He priced himself out of many fights, actually. He was notorious for it.

Of course, when your resume is as deep as Robinson's is, or you have a list of wins over the likes of Duran, Benitez, Hearns, and Hagler like Leonard does, you're more likely to get a pass for whom you didn't fight.

But of course nowadays with all the media, offers that are heard about, fighters "calling out" (like that means **** all anyway) other fighters, etc....fighters are going to get nitpicked more and criticized for not fighting certain opponents.

Interesting, I'm more informed about those 2 heavyweights. Thanks. Not many people would know what you just said due to the difference in era's & age of the people on here. I think due to the media now etc as you mentioned it is easier to crap on fighters now, but isn't that in a way going to make it easier to crap on today's fighters moreso in 50 years, than those fighters of 50 years ago? Point being to get into the status of the greats of the past, you've got to go above & beyond today...and it just doesn't seem like fighters want to, or care to. Even when they have the ability...

[Thread Stealer]

fighters of the past fought the best because they did'nt have a choice if they wanted to get paid more than 50$

I see it as they fought more often due to money, not necessarily fighting the best due to the money. Plenty of great fighters never got title shots because there wasn't enough money.

If you were a heavyweight champ though, you could get away with fighting infrequently.

[Bhopreign]

I've read a lot of posts on here supporting money decisions over legacy decisions, rightfully so. That's if your a come up fighter making a few k a fight. When you're in a position to actually build a legacy, you've already got the money. A couple million here or there doesn't effect the food on your families plate. If you can't survive with a 5 million purse you're not going to survive with a 10 million purse. If you can't manage money it doesn't matter how much you have.

The point being people that support fighters decisions that are only financially rewarding, that's fine, it shows you don't really care about the sport. But what does that really show about the fighter? I think it shows greed, selfishness, & a clear disregard for the fans who are the reason you're making the big money to begin with. I mean when you're making 8 figure paydays, WTF is a million or two here or there really going to do? Above all it shows the neglect & disrespect for the sport itself. One that was pioneered by greats, fighting other greats, multiple times if need be, their passion and desire to be the best stood out. The hunger, the drive to be called THE best and leave no doubt. Every other professional sport forces you to play the best to determine who is the best. Boxing never needed this in the past because if you believed you were the best, you would go out and prove it & we saw the big fights.

The moral of the story is when you have the money, and you still go after it without showing much regard for legacy, that says as much about you as a person and as a fighter. Fighters like these won't be talked about 50 years down the road. Most fighters are in boxing because they truly love boxing & every aspect of it coupled with that competetive spirit. It really is sad to see some of the very best fighters show no regard for this and forget about once they see money.

People will come around after Floyd retires, many fighters were not liked until they retired and people took a deep breath and realized what they did in the sport. Floyd has proven himself over and over again and still gets criticized, if he beat King Kong there will still be criticism.

[sandyvahra]

People will come around after Floyd retires, many fighters were not liked until they retired and people took a deep breath and realized what they did in the sport. Floyd has proven himself over and over again and still gets criticized, if he beat King Kong there will still be criticism.

C'mon bro, it wouldn't be fair to say he isn't a great great fighter, but it also isn't fair not to say he's missed a lot of big names & sterner tests (regardless of reason) that will always hurt him imo.

[Thread Stealer]

Interesting, I'm more informed about those 2 heavyweights. Thanks. Not many people would know what you just said due to the difference in era's & age of the people on here. I think due to the media now etc as you mentioned it is easier to crap on fighters now, but isn't that in a way going to make it easier to crap on today's fighters moreso in 50 years, than those fighters of 50 years ago? Point being to get into the status of the greats of the past, you've got to go above & beyond today...and it just doesn't seem like fighters want to, or care to. Even when they have the ability...

Well I think some fighters care more than others about proving themselves as the best and beating better opponents, but money's always going to be a factor in choice of opposition. Even when Shane Mosley fought Winky Wright, it wasn't like "oh I'm going to give this guy a big fight out of the kindness of my heart and to prove to everyone I can beat a very good difficult opponent". Mosley's pride and ego wouldn't allow him to accept less than 50% of the purse for a 3rd De La Hoya fight, and then he was supposed to fight Mayorga. But Mayorga lost to Spinks, and Winky was the 3rd option.

In regards to fighters not caring less, it's tough to compare their mindsets. Maybe some fighters today learned from the likes of Robinson and Louis who ended up broke and decided to steer their careers more carefully. Perhaps there is a decrease in pride nowadays. Or maybe it's just the circumstances of the times. I have little doubt that Robinson, who was a nightmare to negotiate with, and freely admitted he didn't enjoy the sport and saw it as a business, would be enjoying a nice HBO contract right now, fighting about twice a year, making the best business decisions.

[sandyvahra]

Well I think some fighters care more than others about proving themselves as the best and beating better opponents, but money's always going to be a factor in choice of opposition. Even when Shane Mosley fought Winky Wright, it wasn't like "oh I'm going to give this guy a big fight out of the kindness of my heart and to prove to everyone I can beat a very good difficult opponent". Mosley's pride and ego wouldn't allow him to accept less than 50% of the purse for a 3rd De La Hoya fight, and then he was supposed to fight Mayorga. But Mayorga lost to Spinks, and Winky was the 3rd option.

In regards to fighters not caring less, it's tough to compare their mindsets. Maybe some fighters today learned from the likes of Robinson and Louis who ended up broke and decided to steer their careers more carefully. Perhaps there is a decrease in pride nowadays. Or maybe it's just the circumstances of the times. I have little doubt that Robinson, who was a nightmare to negotiate with, and freely admitted he didn't enjoy the sport and saw it as a business, would be enjoying a nice HBO contract right now, fighting about twice a year, making the best business decisions.

You made really good sense. A lot of your reasons probably tie in to boxing's decrease in popularity over the years.