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Yes, very true.
My issue is still at the very last statement I make in the thread posting. The 106+ issue being using as a big deal.
For instance: Mention him against say, Morales. Well, Morales was fighting a fighter who started at 106. My point: well, that same fighter was knocked out twice in those lower divisions.
Anything he does, if he wins or loses, Manny started at 106.
What I know: Manny was not at his best...not in his prime yet. I understand this. But, bring up the 106, and I'll bring up the two KO losses as well.Comment
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Can't be bothered to be honest but I've seen many times on here Pac nuthuggers claiming him to be one of the GOAT.
EDIT: Here you go:
Last edited by - JCHING -; 05-19-2009, 04:35 PM.Comment
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ATG but far from a GOAT....Comment
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Very good post and pretty much spot on but I think what is being overlooked is how much Pac has improved over the last three years. Here is a guy fighting at a very high level who most thought was already at the top of his game and he seems to have simply taken it to another level. Defense has improved, offense is more diverse and seems to be just as powerful if not more so with excellent combinations, his speed may simply look faster since he is now fighting in higher weight classes but wow, and above all he seems to be thinking like a boxing master now. one other thing to add is his focus is amazing. Here is a guy who has had a very long career who still trains harder than anyone, has refocused his life outside of the gym and follows a gameplan from the sound of the bell until the other guy's ass hits the canvas. Simply amazing! How many other athletes have shown such development/improvement when nearing the end stage of their careers?I'm not even going to bring in the fight-night weights this time around
No question Pacquiao is an ATG but what bothers me about some is that they love to hype up so much where he started as a small child but basically want you to give him a pass on being knocked out twice in those small weight classes. Personally, I think it is a stain on his legacy when people bring up where he started because the two KO losses come with it. You want to say he started at 106, well, I have two videos for you that show what happened in those low weight-classes and it has to do with Pacquiao sleep apnea.
I've always said he was better later on than he was back then when he was in the very low weight classes where he was knocked out. You want me to show you the best Pac, I could, but let's stick with the topic of discussion right now.
From 120+ is where he started to become stronger and was less vulnerable to being knocked out. Below that, you know the "Pac is a 106+ {112} pound fighter" stuff....knocked out twice.
At 125 he beat MAB which was a good win. Some would debate how much the Morales fights took out of MAB but as of now, and without going back to look everything over in detail, MAB was still in good form and that was a great win. He beat him twice; one by TKO (125) and the other by UD (at 130). That's big points in the legacy rating.
At 130, he lost to a past prime Morales. And then he didn't beat Morales until Morales was schooled and looked old against Zahir Raheem at 135 and who then had to move back down to 130...and especially by the third fight (where Morales didn't want the fight to be at 130 because he was starving to death to make the weight, EM was ruined as a fighter).
JMM (130) fights: Two fights that have many talking about if JMM should have been given the nod in at least one of the fights, if not both. But the end results are Pac/JMM "Draw" and Manny "SD" Win over JMM.
Great Win because JMM is a Very Good Fighter.
Big points in Legacy rating.
135: .............................................
140: Now I could go into a longer discussion on where Hatton was at that point in time by the time he faced Manny, but to be honest, I just think it doesn't really matter because Manny was the better fighter and he scored a KO victory over Ricky Hatton in spectacular fashion. Good win because of the second round KO. Legacy points added.
147: no need to discuss since it's been done to death
Overall...still a hellova fighter, an ATG, but overrated by some if we take his entire career into perspective from the start like some like to do.
If we look at him at his best, when he entered his prime and judging him on his prime, not before or not after (whenever that may come), then we have a different reading on Manny Pacquiao.
In addition:
The other side to it and it's something I like to look at for interest (and I won't go into full story mode here), is the Bigger Picture which starts off in Life Legacy. Bascially: His journey to where he is Now. Where he comes from; how he got into the sport; what age and weight he started at; how he came back from defeat; how he improved his life; how he leads his life; etc.
Now that is a ATG worthy if you want to discuss that. And that gets a Standing Ovation from Me.
So basically...if you want to bring up the 106+ child days...be prepared to have the features of the KO losses as well every time it is mentioned.Comment
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Paquiao great fighter
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