You ESPN flunkies Need to Kick Back

[javelin_fangs]

I know that ESPN and its Chris Berman, **** Vitale and Stewart Scott hyperbole has corrupted the minds of most American sports fans for the last 25 years or so. Look I'm 26, I grew up with that stuff too. I don't necessarily blame all of you, but it's ok if we don't encounter the #1 P4P fighter of all time.

Other sports don't always encounter their greatest ever in any given era. Baseball might think that it does, but even these steroid enhanced dudes couldn't hold Willie Mays' jockstrap and none of them could really compete with Babe Ruth or Honus Wagner.

So, let's be honest with ourselves as boxing fans. We can't compare Manny Pacquiao to Henry Armstrong. We can't compare Floyd Mayweather to Ray Robinson. To tell you the truth Pacquiao is probably not even as good as Roberto Duran and I have serious doubts that Mayweather could beat Sweat Pea Whitaker. But they're great fighters. Can we leave it at that?

I mean really fellas, you can't call someone fighting today the G.O.A.T. You can't. I know that you want to, but you can't. Do you know for a fact that Mayweather or Pacquiao are better than Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, Willie Pep, etc.? No, you don't. You just don't.

The best we can do is argue over who is the best of this era. Right now it's down to Pacquiao and Mayweather with Marquez, Cotto, Mosley and maybe one or two others trying to get into the picture. Then we have the competition between the bigger fighters like Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Roy Jones and Joe Calzaghe. But they'd all get iced by Archie Moore and probably Bob Foster too.

None of these guys are going to be the greatest of all time. So, let's not even get started into what Mayweather would have to do to get there because it's just not going to happen. Let's just be satisfied that some great and historically significant fights appear to be on the horizon and worry about all time great status later.

[DLT]

Im 50/50 on what you just said. 1st off, Cotto does not belong in that group at all. He hasnt done hardly enough yet.

I definatly agree that people need to stop with the GOAT stuff "but" I also think that 99% of the time people always rank the past guys better then the present guys in all pro sports and Ive always disagreed with that. Its not fair to the guys who fight nowdays. Boxing was different back then and way more famous so people automaticaly assume that those guys were better but I think a ton of guys from this recent era would give the past guys hell. Now I do agrew where you say that we cant really say who will beat who but Im definatly not going for the point where people always try to act like the old timers were much better. No way. A prime Hopkins wouldve given Hagler everything he wanted and then some. A 135-140 Floyd would give Sweet Pea everything he wanted and then some, and so on

[Unbiased]

I actually think Floyd would beat Pea. Even on a skillset level, I think Floyd holds every advantage over Pea if you really wanna break it down.

[javelin_fangs]

Im 50/50 on what you just said. 1st off, Cotto does not belong in that group at all. He hasnt done hardly enough yet.

I definatly agree that people need to stop with the GOAT stuff "but" I also think that 99% of the time people always rank the past guys better then the present guys in all pro sports and Ive always disagreed with that. Its not fair to the guys who fight nowdays. Boxing was different back then and way more famous so people automaticaly assume that those guys were better but I think a ton of guys from this recent era would give the past guys hell. Now I do agrew where you say that we cant really say who will beat who but Im definatly not going for the point where people always try to act like the old timers were much better. No way. A prime Hopkins wouldve given Hagler everything he wanted and then some. A 135-140 Floyd would give Sweet Pea everything he wanted and then some, and so on

Ok let's get a couple of thing straight first. Cotto could easily get into that group by the end of the year given the right fights and wins in each of them. That said, he's the one who could fall out with a loss or two in his next couple of fights.

But while it's true that some current fighters get downplayed in these debates I think it's far more common that current fighters are overrated. When was the last time you ever read of someone questioning whether or not Pacquiao has a greater resume than Roberto Duran or Archie Moore? When was the last time you read someone question whether Mayweather is better than Harry Greb? It doesn't happen.

Look, I had a friend who was sooooooo convinced that Scott Rolen was the best 3B in MLB history because according to him the numbers proved it. He thought I was an idiot for saying that time would tell, but that I really doubted that he'd even be considered one of the top 10 by the end of his career. People who try to temper some current fans' excitement about Pacquiao get the same type of reaction (myself included).

Let's just let them finish their careers before we get too excited about where they rank all time.

[javelin_fangs]

I actually think Floyd would beat Pea. Even on a skillset level, I think Floyd holds every advantage over Pea if you really wanna break it down.

I'm not saying Pea would have won. I'm saying I don't know. I'm not sure that you really watched a prime Pea and/or truly appreciated what he did in the ring (don't worry the judges in San Antonio and Vegas for fights in '94 and '97 are right there along with you) if you think Floyd holds EVERY advantage over him.

[JOM'S]

imho people/fans should open their minds ...

these type of discussions are good for boxing in general ...

people are "talking boxing" again ...

[MARKBNLV]

This is a good era for the smaller fighter 168 and below,at least we are not horse racing that used to be a top 3 sport and now it is completely irrelivant.

[DLT]

Ok let's get a couple of thing straight first. Cotto could easily get into that group by the end of the year given the right fights and wins in each of them. That said, he's the one who could fall out with a loss or two in his next couple of fights.

But while it's true that some current fighters get downplayed in these debates I think it's far more common that current fighters are overrated. When was the last time you ever read of someone questioning whether or not Pacquiao has a greater resume than Roberto Duran or Archie Moore? When was the last time you read someone question whether Mayweather is better than Harry Greb? It doesn't happen.

Look, I had a friend who was sooooooo convinced that Scott Rolen was the best 3B in MLB history because according to him the numbers proved it. He thought I was an idiot for saying that time would tell, but that I really doubted that he'd even be considered one of the top 10 by the end of his career. People who try to temper some current fans' excitement about Pacquiao get the same type of reaction (myself included).

Let's just let them finish their careers before we get too excited about where they rank all time.

so youre trying to tell me if Cotto gets a couple of solid wins people will start saying that he's the best fighter of our era? Hell NO! I like Cotto but he hasnt put in work like Floyd, Pac, MAB, EM, JM, Lopez, Hopkins, RJ, Toney, Winky, and so on. I dont put him on that level even if he does get a couple of nice wins here. The only guys that have a real chance of the best of this era is Floyd, Pac, RJ, and Hopkins. No one else has a real claim. Toney had best of this era skill but he got too fat and threw it away.

Youre right in that some lately are starting to put these guys up but most of them are just die hard Pac or Floyd fans. Other then that I here the reverse way more from fans and media. They always say that so and so arent like the guys in the past but I always argue that it just seems that way because it was a much more popular sport back then so you look at those guys different but most of them wouldnt be huge PPV stars now and there are a few guys now who would be big stars if they fought back then. To each his own though, I guess. I will say that the best argument for the past guys is that there was only 1 belt until very recently so the top guys pretty much had to fight eachother if they wanted to be the Champ

[javelin_fangs]

so youre trying to tell me if Cotto gets a couple of solid wins people will start saying that he's the best fighter of our era? Hell NO! I like Cotto but he hasnt put in work like Floyd, Pac, MAB, EM, JM, Lopez, Hopkins, RJ, Toney, Winky, and so on. I dont put him on that level even if he does get a couple of nice wins here. The only guys that have a real chance of the best of this era is Floyd, Pac, RJ, and Hopkins. No one else has a real claim. Toney had best of this era skill but he got too fat and threw it away.

Youre right in that some lately are starting to put these guys up but most of them are just die hard Pac or Floyd fans. Other then that I here the reverse way more from fans and media. They always say that so and so arent like the guys in the past but I always argue that it just seems that way because it was a much more popular sport back then so you look at those guys different but most of them wouldnt be huge PPV stars now and there are a few guys now who would be big stars if they fought back then. To each his own though, I guess. I will say that the best argument for the past guys is that there was only 1 belt until very recently so the top guys pretty much had to fight eachother if they wanted to be the Champ

If Cotto were to beat Pacquiao and Mayweather for example he could be in that discussion. I'm not going to argue this though. I'm not saying he's in that realm and I don't think he will be. I'm just keeping the door open rather than completely closing it. One thing I do want to point is that I don't knock Cotto down for losing to Margarito because Margarito is dirty cheater.

[DLT]

If Cotto were to beat Pacquiao and Mayweather for example he could be in that discussion. I'm not going to argue this though. I'm not saying he's in that realm and I don't think he will be. I'm just keeping the door open rather than completely closing it. One thing I do want to point is that I don't knock Cotto down for losing to Margarito because Margarito is dirty cheater.

I still "maybe" knock him down a peg. Im back & forths on it. When I rewatch the Mosley-Margarito fight I still see pretty much the same Margarito but he was just a bad matchup for him. Meaning, I still think Margarito may would kick Cotto's ass. Maybe not the KO but I could see him winning a decision or whateva. I think Margarito is like Tito. Tito got caught with the big wraps but if you watch Tito swing, he still swings hard as crap. Its the same with Margarito in the Mosley fight. When he did swing they were still hard swings so I think he may could still hurt some guys. I just dont think Cotto would kill him if they fought again like others do. However, if Cotto slaughtered him then I wouldnt be shocked either : )