Mayweather-pacquiao: The double standard

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  • Ray*
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    #1

    Mayweather-pacquiao: The double standard





    By Michael Herron



    The highly anticipated return of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. and Manny Pacquiao’s dramatic knockout of Ricky Hatton has ignited the boxing world and sparked a great debate; fight fans are anxious to know which guy is the best, who is truly the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world? Pound-for-pound by definition was created to describe a fighter with great skill who can move up and down the scales, challenge fighters in multiple weight classes, and continue to perform and be just as successful as they would at their optimal weight. With this in mind, both fighters fit the description well, but in terms of acknowledging pound-for-pound greatness, there appears to be a double standard in favor of Manny Pacquiao.

    Floyd Mayweather, Jr. has won titles in five weight classes, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, yet none of his ring accomplishments are without criticism from the boxing media. During the Hatton-Pacquiao telecast for instance, Larry Merchant, in reference to Mayweather’s return to boxing, went on a tirade accusing Floyd of cherrypicking opponents, pricing himself out of fights, and flat out ducking fighters. Yet an obvious fact such as Pacquiao facing an opponent Mayweather has already defeated is never mentioned. It also seemed to fall under the radar that Mayweather had already defeated Pacquiao’s previous opponent Oscar De La Hoya as well.

    The irony is that Pacquiao’s claim to being the undisputed best is largely based on these two fights. For the past few years, boxing writers, reporters, diehard fans, and media personalities have adopted an infamous view that Hatton and De La Hoya were merely cherry picked opponents, simply diversions while Mayweather avoided challenges from welterweights Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley, and Antonio Margarito; yet these same two opponents are considered grand slam victories for Pacquiao; victories that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is pound-for-pound the best fighter in the world. How can this be if they were previously declared “cherries?”

    Though Pacquiao’s supporters would argue that his wins over Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, and Juan Manuel Marquez catapulted him to this status it was not sealed until Mayweather officially retired in 2008 and Pacquiao went on to defeat De La Hoya later the same year. Pacquiao certainly deserves credit for his victories over such a famous trio of Mexican warriors but in terms of a young fighter establishing himself--climbing the ladder, who can argue that Mayweather did not likewise defeat great fighters in the lighter weights? Surely no one would argue that Genaro Hernandez, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy, Jose Luis Castillo, were cream puffs.

    To further illustrate the double standard enter the #2 pound-for-pound fighter in the world Juan Manuel Marquez. Team Mayweather announced that Floyd will face Marquez on his July 18th return to the sport. He did not choose any old random contender as a tune-up but a multi-division world champion and in many observers opinion, two time conqueror of Manny Pacquiao. (Pacquiao scored a draw and a win against Marquez). The same media proponents that declared Hatton and De La Hoya “cherries” are now blasting Mayweather for taking a fight against proven champion Marquez. They argue that Marquez is too small or that Floyd knows he can beat him etc...Yet if Manny Pacquiao were to accept a third fight against Marquez, he’d be hailed as a true champion, a true warrior, the real pound-for-pound king.

    So what is truly going on here? Is it a weight issue? Freddie Roach declared that Pacquiao’s optimal weight is 140 and that is where he will be at his best. Mayweather, being a small welterweight, appears to be at his best somewhere between 140 and 147. In addition, Marquez has been moving up in weight successfully and it is he who called out Mayweather at a catchweight below 147. Is 3-4 pounds really so great a difference that Mayweather has to be persecuted for accepting a fight against Marquez? Catchweights are nothing new in boxing, why is it suddenly an issue now? Assuming Mayweather defeats Marquez, will diehard fans and media raise this same 3-4 pound argument when it is Pacquiao’s turn to face Mayweather?

    What is clear is that an answer to who is the best pound-for-pound can not be given based on their performance against common opponents, or their careers at the lighter weights. Both guys have been dynamic and only a battle against each other can settle the matter. It can be noted however that there is a double standard at play when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao. The media bashes Mayweather’s accomplishments but hail Pacquiao for achieving the same thing. Also, Freddie Roach has indicated that Pacquiao will not move up to 147 to face Mayweather however it was just fine to move up for De La Hoya. Mayweather is blasted for fighting Marquez but Pacquiao would be a hero if he did the same. What this all indicates is that it is ultimately not simply a case of Mayweather “handpicking” opponents but it is more likely his opponents who are careful about picking him.
  • horge
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    #2
    Two standards are needed for two different cases.

    It was Mayweather himself who raised the standard by which
    he is to be judged, shooting off his mouth about being the GOAT,
    then ducking every top WW contender in sight.

    Both fighters deliver, but Pacquiao delivers better than he promises.
    Mayweather's undoubtedly the more gifted athlete, but he just
    hasn't backed up all his smack.


    h.
    Last edited by horge; 05-07-2009, 08:03 PM.

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    • P.WILL
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      #3
      Mayweather-Pacquiao, make it happen.

      although i wouldnt mind seeing cotto-pacquiao

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      • 2501
        upinurgirlsguts
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        #4
        Originally posted by horge
        Two standards are needed for two different cases.

        It was Mayweather himself who raised the standard by which
        he is to be judged, shooting off his mouth about being the GOAT,
        then ducking every top WW contender in sight.

        h.
        not only that, these are 2 completely different fighters.

        Floyd went from WW to JR Middleweight to decision Oscar De La Hoya

        Manny went from LW to WW to TKO Oscar De La Hoya

        Floyd made Hatton fight @ 147, one class above his best weight and knocked him out in 9 rounds.

        Manny fought Hatton @ 140, Hatton's best weight, and knocked him out in 2 rounds.

        Manny has NOT done the same things Mayweather has already has. He's taken the most risk in these match ups than Mayweather has and executed in a far more impressive manner.

        Double standard? Ha.

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        • Saronic
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          #5
          I rather see Cotto vs Pacquiao and then Cotto vs Mayweather.

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          • Ray*
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            #6
            MIGHTY MIKE'S MAILBAG
            By Mike Herron

            Jason Peck: Finally, an article that actually takes a stance. The only thing that the writers do anymore is follow the biggest fights and fighters without question, and write articles with such ingenious titles as "Manny Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton." I wrote a similar article to yours about how Jermaine Taylor was blasted for not fighting true middleweights, but Pavlik is somehow allowed. It got a lot of hate, but whatever -- if it's not going to take a stance, it's not worth saying.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: Though a writer, I have the mentality of a fighter, anything I write I’m willing to back up. If you dish it you got to be willing to take what comes back at you. Those who become the best in their chosen profession will take positive and negative feedback and use it to get better.

            Jayon Persaud: You wrote this on your article "Yet an obvious fact such as Pacquiao facing an opponent Mayweather has already defeated is never mentioned. It also seemed to fall under the radar that Mayweather had already defeated Pacquiao’s previous opponent Oscar De La Hoya as well. "Listen man, there is a huge difference there. Do you know what weight Manny started fighting at? He came up to 140 and 147. Compare that to the weight Floyd starting fighting at. Before he fought Oscar it was ohh he's too small there's no way, I bet you were one of the ones who thought Oscar was going to demolish Pacquiao cause of the size difference then when he ****in beats the **** out of Oscar it's oh he's past his prime he was too dehydrated. Then with Hatton he's not strong enough he's too small. Then what happened Pacquiao kicked the living **** out of him.
            Everyone says that Floyd hand picks his opponents and you don't? There's something wrong with you. Give Pacman his credit for accomplishing what he did. He beat more great fighters than mayweather. who has mayweather beat? Dude get your facts right and stop hating. Pacman all day.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: Many readers actually share your sentiment that Pacquiao started out at a much lighter weight class (106) than Mayweather. Thing is, Pac was only 16 years old when he turned pro. Maywaeather also fought at 106 winning the Golden Gloves as an amateur in 1993. Freddie Roach has stated repeatedly in interviews including HBO’s 24/7 that Pac is not the little guy that people perceive him to be; he is a legit 140 lb fighter. The sooner Pac fans accept this the better.

            Robert Jackson: Like you said in your article HBO’s Larry Merchant’s PBF hate diatribe during the Hatton/Pacquiao telecast should hasten him off into retirement. I would call Pacquiao picking David Diaz, cherry picking; why not Casamayor, Nate Campbell? They’re HOPING with their fingers and toes crossed that Marquez can beat Floyd and after Floyd dominates Marquez they’ll be crying that Marquez was too small, past his prime, etc., etc. Then they’ll hope that Pacquiao BEATS Floyd up after Floyd outclasses Pacquiao they’ll be HATING even more. No matter who Floyd beats it won’t be enough his credentials will be in question.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: For some reason it is not unusual in the sport of boxing for the most talented fighters to be severely criticized. We witnessed it with Ali, Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, and now Mayweather. Why boxing media wants to bring down its most talented pugilist is anyone’s guess, a fighter spends his entire career battling the critics, proving themselves each time the step in the ring, yet its often only after their career is over (or they get injured) that they are shown appreciation. Go figure.

            Henry Dyck: You claim that Marquez has been successfully moving up in weight but has he really? He started his career at 125 and 16 years later he's at 135. He's only had 2 fights at lightweight since last September. Also if 3-4 pounds really didn't make that much of a difference then why are we seeing so many 'catch weight' fights and have 14 weight divisions? Especially at the lower weights below 140. So yes, by Mayweather forcing a fighter who's 18 months removed from being a super-featherweight, I would say he deserves to be a target of such criticism…There's a reason why he changed his name to "Money". Mayweather will continue to take the safer fights in order to pad his wallet and not his legacy.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: There comes a time when a fighter simply needs to challenge themselves. Since Mayweather was at 130 he has been urged to move up in weight to seek challenges. Five weight classes later, the boxing world still wants him to face larger, heavier foes? Marquez is at a point in his career where he is driven to take a major challenge. Pacquiao is his arch rival who just defeated De La Hoya and Hatton, Marquez realizes the only way to top that is Mayweather…and besides, it will be the biggest payday of his career.

            Jose A Basa III: ….PBF nuthugger!...

            Stephen Burns: What a blind nut hugger you are. You even had the nerve to post this "an obvious fact such as Pacquiao facing an opponent Mayweather has already defeated is never mentioned." You do realize Mayweather is about to fight a guy from a smaller weight class that Pac has already beaten right? Pac started his career just over 100 pounds and Mayweather started his at over 20 pounds heaver. Mayweather is the bigger guy yet he picked the easier fights when Pac is going after the bigger more challenging. Also Mayweather retired in his prime when there was lots of more challenging fights out there. One guy is picking fights that he is the sure favorite to win while the other is picking fights that no one really gave him a chance in hell at winning. Hopkins would get more credit for beating Haye than Wladimir right?

            Mighty Mike’s Response: Why is any writer or fan who states anything positive or even remotely decent about Mayweather labeled a nuthugger? I got to admit, boxing has interesting vocabulary words, cherrypickers, nuthuggers, creampuffs, soft touches, sounds like a Vegas strip club. See the previous response regarding weight.

            Carl: This was hands down the best article I have ever read since Floyd has come back to face JMM. I mean you hit the nail right on the head. Its either you are a true boxing fan and you have some type of boxing background to where you can see real talent and know the sports. Or you work for Floyd mayweather promotions. And I dont think its the latter of the two. I have been saying the same thing to people all over the internet. And trying to respond to the espn writers and other boxing site writers. So I just wanted to commend you on this great article and I hope people get to see this so they can shine some light on the fact that no matter what Floyd does its never good enough and that this whole reason of him never getting credit is the reason why he left both time in the first place. People only pay to see or to try to witness Floyd mayweather loosing. And to be honest, that will never happen.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: I actually have been asked or more so accused of working for Mayweather Promotions before. I find it fascinating that any writer who puts a positive spin on Mayweather must be working for Mayweather Promotions while writers who hail Pacquiao are not said to be working for Pacman Promotions; must be some kind of “double standard.” Thanks for the kind words.

            B-Legit: This article is exactly right!!! I am no big PBF fan personally but I am an avid boxing fan. I have boxed for 17 years and now I train boxers and I keep it honest on what I see. PBF is the best p4p and nobody likes it. Pac gets dues for 2 controversial decisions against JMM, one a draw and one a win, but PBF gets labeled cherry picking for taking on the same man. Pac cherry picked Oscar. He hadn't made weight at welterweight in many years let alone been an elite welterweight at the time. A lot of fans just don't want to be honest. Many are these so called experts who are commentating. They hold personal grudges toward a fighter and find ways to sway the public view of this fighter. Like I said, PBF is not my favorite fighter or anything like that but I know what I see and I am a rare fan because I keep it honest. PBF is the best p4p fighter and nobody wants to accept it.

            Mighty Mike’s Response: I personally think that Marquez is a fine choice of opponent for Mayweather. Though Marquez has the disadvantage of moving up in weight, Mayweather has been inactive for nearly 2 years. For all we know, Floyd could of lost a step, there could be ring rust, timing could be off. All of that could spell disaster against a foe as talented as Marquez. I simply hope that the media and commentators emphasize the advantages and disadvantages rather than their personal feelings (grudges) about the fighters, which is often the case.

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            • horge
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              #7
              What's next, reposting Mike Herron's high school love letters?


              Mayweather's a great champion, but he asked to be reckoned
              as the GOAT. Not just P4P#1, but the ****ing GOAT.
              That's asking to be judged by a higher standard,
              so your reposted bull**** don't cut it.

              Double standard, my ass...

              h.

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              • RodBarker
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                #8
                Originally posted by 2501
                not only that, these are 2 completely different fighters.

                Floyd went from WW to JR Middleweight to decision Oscar De La Hoya

                Manny went from LW to WW to TKO Oscar De La Hoya

                Floyd made Hatton fight @ 147, one class above his best weight and knocked him out in 9 rounds.

                Manny fought Hatton @ 140, Hatton's best weight, and knocked him out in 2 rounds.

                Manny has NOT done the same things Mayweather has already has. He's taken the most risk in these match ups than Mayweather has and executed in a far more impressive manner.

                Double standard? Ha.
                You want to talk about weight then tell the truth ,,, Mayweather didnt fight at jnr middle thats bull**** , he weighed 148 fighting a fighter that weighed 160 on the night for a belt that had 154 stamped on it , the belt weight means nothing when evaluating the performance of these fighters fior crying out loud !!

                Then Hatton was heavier than Floyd on the night and the same weight as he weighed with Pac in a jnr W fight ,,,, more bull**** ,,,, Pac fights Oscar and Hatton weighing what Floyd does and Floyds a monster ,,,, more bull**** ,,,,,,,, JMM stepped in at 144 last two fights , 3lbs lighter than Pac does but he cant be 4lbs lighter than Floyd , yet Floyd can be 16 pounds lighter than Williams Cotto and Margo , talk about double standards , you want to argu weight at least understand what it is and the difference it has on fight weight , who gives a **** what they weigh 30hrs before what matters is what they ***ing weigh at fight time ,,, thats all that matters ,,,, you guys are unreal the way you sway in the breeze talking crap about weight .


                .

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                • Ray*
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                  #9
                  Ronald Harris: Hi Mike, This Is Ron Harris (Friend And Fan) of Cory Spinks and Deandre The Bull Latimore. First of all I just want to say your article Is dead on and its has to be one of the best argued articles I’ve seen in a long time...I Wont go into detail on it , cause you already know what you wrote. What ever you do, please post it again next week so that everybody gets a chance to read it. Friend and Fan...

                  Mighty Mike’s Response: I had to respond cause St. Louis is in the house, Like Cory and Deandre I call the Lou home as well, I thought those two guys fought a hell of a fight, my homies (do people still say homies?) where in Knockouts watching Hatton-Pac, they gave a shot out to Cory and Devon for me. Thanks for the friendly words, homie.

                  Duce Thomas: Hey Mike, I just read your article and I must admit it was very good. I have been trying to explain this to people for months but of course this is a what have you done for me lately business so no one will listen. I think the reason that people knock Floyd’s accomplishments is because they don’t like him as a person. If he was as likeable as Shane or Oscar there is no way that people would knock him the way they do. Floyd is my favorite fighter but being a boxer myself I have unbiased opinion of how fights will play out. In saying that I would like to say that I think Floyd dominates Manny, defensive fighters give Manny problems (i.e. Marquez) and no one has better defense than Floyd, combine that with his hand speed and I see why Roach doesn’t want to move to Floyd’s dominant weight for a fight. Great Article

                  Mighty Mike’s Response: Thanks for the kudos, particularly when it is coming from someone who has been in the ring and understands the business. Mayweather’s personality it appears does have a lot to do with his lack of accreditation from fans. I think many fans take his Money Mayweather character to personal. It is just an out of the ring act, entertainment…when in the ring Mayweather is nothing but professional. He’s not a dirty fighter, he doesn’t throw illegal punches, head butts or bite; he doesn’t for lack of a better word…..cheat. When with Top Rank, Arum wanted Mayweather to take the Leonard, De La Hoya route to stardom. Floyd chose to be the villain. Thing is, boxing needs villains, it’s healthy for the sport. My feeling is that if Mayweather did take the good guy approach 24/7 would be a little less interesting.

                  Celerino Reyes: I'm sure you're getting a lot of feedback from your article; it's not that Pac beat the same two guys but in the way he beat them. Fraud had a split decision with Oscar, Pac demolished him! Fraud knocked Ricky out at 147 (Pillow fists Luis Collazo proved Ricky didn't belong at 147). Ricky's best weight is/was at 140 pounds and Manny Destroyed him! Manny is new to these higher weights (remember his first fight was at 106 but he weighed in at 102) so he hasn't been at these higher weights long enough to say he's avoiding anybody….

                  Mighty Mike’s Response: Fights may take place one at a time but they are not independent and unrelated to what has come before. When Mayweather beat Hatton, Ricky was an undefeated fighter who did not know how to lose. What Pacquiao was able to accomplish against Hatton and De La Hoya is clearly linked to what came before. Evidence of what I mean can be found in Hatton’s interviews where he refuses to bring his son to the fight out of fear that he’d be knocked out. Hatton did not conceive of himself being knocked out prior to his fight with Mayweather, now its always lurking in the back of his mind. The old Hatton walked through punches at 140, you tell me what happened to his chin?


                  Poet Wright: I am a huge fan of boxing and not one that just decided to start tuning in and giving my opinions on this and that. I have read countless articles about many different fighters, and general boxing world topics. I must say that this is by far the best article I have read, besides the fact that ********** has taken my money as I have registered to be a member and it keeps tellin me I'm expired and every time I email any one on contact list it comes back undeliverable. Any way back to my reason for sending you this email, I must say that I am truly impressed with your article. One it is evident that you are an overall fan of boxing. Two your article doesn't pick sides it merely states the facts, and it's funny because me and a friend of mines were just having a discussion that was very similar to the topic of your article. One of the things I have noticed about announcers recently is that they are just that, announcers. Nothing more, they pick who they highlight more based on who they like. We all know Floyd is an extremely talented boxer, but because he doesn't carry the "good boy" persona to the media, they trash him instead of highlighting the facts about his accomplishments. I believe you are right on point when you say maybe it is not Floyd who is handpicking his opponents but maybe it's the opponents handpicking him.

                  Mighty Mike’s Response: Thanks, and hopefully ********** will fix that account issue, lol. My article is called The Double Standard but you are correct that I am not choosing sides, bashing or hating on Pacquiao in any way. Basically Pac and Floyd both have a claim to being the pound for pound best fighter in the world. In addition Marquez, to a lesser degree, can make a claim to being the best as well. The beauty is that they are about to have a round robin, these guys are in a range where weight should not be an issue in this pound for pound debate.

                  Raj Singh: Mike - Great article. I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like Mayweather wouldn't even get props from the media if he fought light-heavyweights.

                  Mighty Mike’s Response: Heck, you might me right, the worse thing he could do is win; that would only mean his opponent was cherrypicked, lol.

                  Matt Barrios: All though I can't stand Mayweathers ignorance, like when he's bragging about his money, and being a flashy moron, I must agree with you on the double standard. I have this same argument with my friend who is a die hard Pac-man fan. Why would anyone put down Mayweather for accepting a fight with Marquez, I guy who in my opinion did win those 2 fights against Pac-man.

                  Peter Allen: Mayweather deserves to be blasted. Last time he fought it was against De la hoya at 154. Why isn’t he fighting guys like Cotto, Clottey , Paul Williams and Mosley. He is overrated and boring. I was praying he never came back. Fighters like him are the reason Boxing is dying. There is no excitement in watching him fight. He is always on the defensive. Pacman is way better and more entertaining. F -------- K Fraud.

                  Nicholas Green: Man your article on Pacman and PBF was right on point. They are both my 2 favorite fighters and you did the article accurately and without
                  trying to bring either down like so many others do. I appreciate good
                  unbiased journalism like this and I hope u keep it up. Take care.

                  Q. Logie: How's it going Mike? Listen I read your pound for pound article on Boxing Talk and, what I can say is it's excellent and you have basically documented my thoughts for me (great minds) lol You asked why is it that Floyd is chastised for his choice of fights etc. We all know Larry Merchant is a Floyd hater so he would say what he says, the worse thing is listening to him commentating on a PBF fight - the underhand digs are frequent and as you say unfair. Now, short and simple I think it upset a lot of people when Floyd was No.1 (still is IMO) so that fact that they have a new guy to celebrate now is heaven to these people, as they really don't like Floyd and everything Pac does will be twice as good in their eyes. Why is this? Floyd is arrogant, black, and brilliant so they want to keep him down for these reasons I believe, it may sound like a cliché but it is what it is the worlds an unfair place, I just hope he whoops JMM & MP's asses. Even then they'll talk about Cotto, Margarito, (the cheat) and Mosley all of which they will want to prevail against him. Mosley is black but he's not arrogant so is more acceptable than Floyd to these types. Reply if you have the time, if not keep writing them articles.

                  Brandon: It can be noted however that there is a double standard at play when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao. The media bashes Mayweather’s accomplishments but hail Pacquiao for achieving the same thing.” It took Pacquiao 10 rounds to do what Mayweather did in 22. Not the same. What applies in the micro of boxing can easily be applied to any macro. If you have one employee that can do a job at a higher quality and in less than half the time as another you shouldn’t be surprised to see the more efficient worker praised and promoted as the less efficient is left behind and eventually becomes obsolete. The argument that the both achieved the same thing has absolutely no logic and falls apart on so many levels. That being said, I hope the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight comes to fruition and lives up to all expectations regardless of who wins. Boxing is in need of more high profile fights like this one.

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                  • Pudgemeister
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                    #10
                    Theres a double standard cause:

                    *Floyd is bigger but fights like a ***** with the same opponents.

                    *Floyd says he he is the best ever.

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