Does anyone else believe that Rocky Marciano's record was not exactly "so special"?

[hammerhiem]

that is a complete lie. He ducked holmes for one, retiring before facing him. he ruled in a weak era, there were no louis, ali or tysons in his era and the only great fighter on his resume is joe louis, they picked him up from retirement to make marciano look good. he is the equivalent of joe calzaghe for that time.

ducked Holmes?? did you mean Patterson?

Charles, Moore and Walcott make alot of people ATG lists not to mention the Brown bomber as old as he was.

[Mugwump]

It's worth remembering that Marciano was an incredibly dirty fighter. Head. Elbows. Rabbit Punching - the lot.

Fighting today he'd probably have six or more DQs against his record.

[GJC]

that is also true but then you must weight in the most defining american fact for ethnic dominance in boxing: slavery. it's a long story but i segest a funny shortcut and you will get it, no one can deny this.

Agreed, I believe it was Tommy Smith (1968 Black Power protest guy) who put forward the theory that slavery acted as a (un)natural selection process which meant that black sportsman became so dominant. e.g. Only the fittest were selected male and female etc etc.

[GJC]

that is a complete lie. He ducked holmes for one, retiring before facing him. he ruled in a weak era, there were no louis, ali or tysons in his era and the only great fighter on his resume is joe louis, they picked him up from retirement to make marciano look good. he is the equivalent of joe calzaghe for that time.

Didn't know he ducked Larry Holmes. I would have thought he might have fancied that one given that he would have had a reach advantage over the 6 year old Larry Holmes. Great test for the Holmes jab though!

[GJC]

ducked Holmes?? did you mean Patterson?

Charles, Moore and Walcott make alot of people ATG lists not to mention the Brown bomber as old as he was.

Yes probably think thats who he meant. Never heard it suggested that he ducked Patterson. Never heard it suggested that Patterson waited for him to retire either.
If I was to theorise on one of those scenarios however I know which one i'd go for.

[GJC]

"So you're saying that it was the mafia's fault that his oponnents got viciously knocked out? "
Do u believe taking a dive would look staged if you or your family's life was on the line. I would take a bat to my face in order for my child to live.

Check his record then respond...and ages of the fighters he fought.

and did you guys read everything I wrote?

Must say the punch that hit Walcott to win the title looked as if barely touched him!
I personally would take the bat than that punch.
Ezzard Charles was only 2 years older than Marciano.

[Danny Gunz]

If the mafia was prominent in his career at some point they would most likely make him take a dive against a big underdog...

He didnt fight the greatest heavyweights ever but he made the best of what he had and you have to commend him for that... especially since the majority of his fights were knockouts

[GJC]

How could you make a statement like"The mafia had nothing to do with his fights"?....you have no idea. I think it is very possible. Notice how I stated "I think", because I know it is not proven just like we have no proof that they did not influence.

You think it is very possible, based on what? Because he was Italian? If his opponents were as awful as you say why the need for the fix? Also he handed out some heavy duty punishment, if the other fighter is going to roll over why hang in there like ****ell did and take a fearful beating? We have no proof they did not influence and also zero proof apart from our own eyes which makes it look unlikely.
I can't see how you get to this in a logical argument. Fine say he was the worst ever heavyweight to hold the title, I wouldn't agree but it would be a boring world if we held the same opinion. But to theorise that his fights were fixed even though I can't prove it but it might be a possibility because you can't disprove it is both ludicrous and libelous.

[GJC]

I can't prove that Joe Louis deliberately threw the 1st Schmeling fight to assist in the growth of ****sm, but then no one can 100% prove otherwise.

Examining the "facts":
1) The ****'s did use sport as a propaganda tool as shown by the 1936 Olympics
2) Schmeling was German
2) The 1st fight was "coincidently in 1936.
3) Louis won the 2nd fight easily in 1938 which would make anyone wonder how he lost the 1st.
4) The start of the second world war was 1939 the year after the 2nd fight.
5) Whilst Schmeling fought in the 2nd world war Louis didn't see active service.
6) They became friends in later years which for such rivals is su****ious.
7) Schmeling worked for Coca Cola an American firm.
8) Schmeling became an honourary citizen of Las Vegas where Joe Louis worked in his declining years.

Pretty conclusive I would say, or prove otherwise.

[cotto16]

Marciano was a good fighter, but not the spectactular wrecking ball his fans make him out to be.

He's been dropped by smaller men (Former Middleweight Archie Moore), older men (Jersey Joe Walcott), and damn near finished off by journeymen (Ted Lowry).

He only gets his accolades because of his "0".

I'd pick Frazier, Tyson, Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Norton, Holmes, Ali, Louis (prime, not the prehistoric version Marciano mopped up), and a ton of others over him any day of the week.

Most of them would knock the **** out of him, to be quite honest.

Are you kidding, with Shavers and Norton beating the rock!