prime rocky marciano vs prime mike tyson...

[Boogie Nights]

And Note: Oliver McCall, the Man who would KO Lewis, said Buster Douglas hit harder than Lewis and said Buster Douglas was the toughest fight of his career, although he says it may have to do with being inexperienced.
Douglas beat McCall and got Tyson next. Douglas was on a 6 fight winning streak after getting himself together. After Tyson however, fat unmovitated Doulgas came back and cashed out.
Motivation and Purpose are key in doing something well.

Absolutely my man. And another thing is that most posters here have not even seen any other Douglas fight except the one with tyson. For them it's much easier to judge based on that performance alone.

I've seen quite a few pieces of footage on Buster's pre tyson fights. The guy had talent, it did not always show, but we got to witness it where it mattered most, against tyson. I've seen Douglas put guys down with jabs. He had fluid like handspeed, the height, reach, power, it was all there.

Buster fought on all cylinders that night. Whether it was Ali put in front of him, a Louis, Lennox, or vintage tyson, it wouldnt have mattered, because he wasnt going to crumble. The man came to fight, and he delivered. Not saying he'd beat all those guys on that night, but he would definetly make a competitive contest.

[TheGreatA]

If they didn't hurt Rocky, how do we know how he responds when he is truly hurt....like when Holyfield or Gatti got hurt?
And, if he wasn't hurt when he went down, doesn't that take away from being knocked down and coming back to win?

Hell, I think Tyson being stunned and coming back to win is just as good as any knockdown, let alone a flash-knockdown. We shouldn't hold it against the guy that his legs, will, and chin were too damn strong to go down from a single shot when still strong and could continue to take an ass whooping until he had absolutely nothing left.

Rocky went down early against Moore and Walcott.
Imagine if Tyson was the one standing over Rocky instead Walcott and Moore.

And Note: Oliver McCall, the Man who would KO Lewis, said Buster Douglas hit harder than Lewis and said Buster Douglas was the toughest fight of his career, although he says it may have to do with being inexperienced.
Douglas beat McCall and got Tyson next. Douglas was on a 6 fight winning streak after getting himself together. After Tyson however, fat unmovitated Doulgas came back and cashed out.
Motivation and Purpose are key in doing something well.

As I said, Tyson would truly hurt Marciano and he would hurt him early.

Marciano had an amazing chin but only for his size, we don't know how he would deal with a 210+ lb opponent who could actually fight.

Moore and Walcott put him down but I wouldn't hold those knockdowns against Rocky since he was not actually close to being knocked out and later on in those fights he took even bigger punches from both of them without being even slightly shaken.

A lot of times he is counted out in any match-up for being "hurt" by "light heavyweights" which is being unfair to be honest but again, I don't see him doing well in this particular match-up.

[Benny Leonard]

good post. It's just sad, and disgracefull that there are so many people on this site who dont give tyson his due and say he's got no heart. Im a member of 2 other boxing sites (hence why im here less and less) and people there are more sensible and less hatefull.

I never bought into the whole ''he folds under pressure'' bull****. That is just the bull**** horse**** myth that Atlas invented, and people started nodding their heads like they actually knew what the hell he was talking about. And of course you got the know it all experts like Bert Sugar flashing his rotten, yellow teeth and adding fuel to the fire. Pathetic.

Getting a beating for 8 rounds and then putting the guy down for a long count, that aint heart? Being pressured by the uncooperative Ruddock and then unleashing an ass whooping both times isnt showing heart? Coming out of prison and regaining the title aint showing heart? Taking one of the worst beating from Lewis when lesser men would have gone down aint showing heart?

These people just ****ing disgust me, honestly. They have never taken a slap to their ugly mugs in their entire pathetic lives, yet they have the nerve to criticise another man, a champion, in the ring.

He didn't invent that. That was supposedly true based on his experience with Tyson. However, that is the key: "his experience" with Tyson. How long did that last? Tyson was what, 15, when Atlas got the boot.
After Atlas left, Rooney came in and Cus was still working on the mind. You don't suddenly rehabilitate in 2 years...especially when that kid is going up against more experienced amateur fighters and you have a hard-ass for a coach, although I do think there was a positive side to Atlas as a disciplinarian that was needed for a young Tyson. Tyson didn't have that many amateur fights. Why do you continue to train and fight? To...........mature, gain experience, getter better, gain confidence, and to allow your balls to drop.

Rocky ****** as an amateur. How did he do as a pro?

People seem to over-look that Tyson was 18 when he turned pro, 20 when he won the title, and around that time might have been the most popular athlete in the World, if not on his way because he was by the time he got to Spinks. That's a young age to be that popular while having to deal with the crap on the outside. But, in the end, I always say it: It's still Tyson to blame because he was making the choices as well.

If Tyson had been the same fighter he was as an inexperienced 15 year old amateur, he would have lost way before he got to Berbick. He would have folded in some pro fight against a club-fighter because he wouldn't have been able to deal with the crowd let alone the opponent in front of him.

The wait in the dressing room before a boxing match - that last hour - could be enough to strip a man that never boxed before of whatever pride, desire and heart he thought he had."
- John Scully, April 2002

But here is something I got from Floyd Patterson and this is why people tend to bring up D'Amato:

{After seeing Liston by himself in his room after a loss}

Floyd: "I remember that empty room as much as anything," he says. "I think about it when I talk to Tracy. I tell him, 'You need a couple people who will be there always.' I had that. I didn't have to worry about what fights to take, what contracts to sign, when to sleep, eat or train, or what to say to reporters. Cus took care of it all."

{When he was first picked up by Cus}
"I had no self-esteem, none at all," Patterson recalls. "There was not a person anywhere who was not better than me, in my mind. I was desperate to be taken apart, helped...shown something. Cus became like a father to me. He made me feel I mattered. Maybe he did that for Mike Tyson, too. I loved Cus. He really was like a dad. I put all my trust in him. He'd say something at a press conference, and I'd say, 'That's my answer too., He'd put something in front of me, I'd sign it. Total trust."


At 5'11" and 185 pounds, roughly his weight in the prime of his career, Patterson looks smaller than you might expect. "I fought big men a lot," he says. "Cus told me I had a real speed and reflex advantage on big men. Fear accelerates reflexes, you know? Cus proved it."

D'Amato sold Patterson on the improbable. In December 1955 the diffident protégé weighed a mere 179 pounds, yet a year later D'Amato guided his 21-year-old pupil to Rocky Marciano's vacated championship with a fifth-round knockout of 39-year-old Archie Moore. "I was the youngest heavyweight champion in history," Patterson says. "Then we started having trouble getting fights."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1003844/2/index.htm

[Rich Loc]

Rocky Maricano by brutal KO

[Boogie Nights]

He didn't invent that. That was supposedly true based on his experience with Tyson. However, that is the key: "his experience" with Tyson. How long did that last? Tyson was what, 15, when Atlas got the boot.
After Atlas left, Rooney came in and Cus was still working on the mind. You don't suddenly rehabilitate in 2 years...especially when that kid is going up against more experienced amateur fighters and you have a hard-ass for a coach, although I do think there was a positive side to Atlas as a disciplinarian that was needed for a young Tyson. Tyson didn't have that many amateur fights. Why do you continue to train and fight? To...........mature, gain experience, getter better, gain confidence, and to allow your balls to drop

Sure, Atlas' pet peeve were people who werent choir church boys, when he, himself, was far from one.

But im not gonna defend tyson on his early tactics. He did come from the streets with a bad temper, obviously some discipline needed to be forced. but as you said, a lot of changes been made since then. for tyson it was water under the bridge, for teddy it was something different.

even today he continues on about Tyson's inconsistencies, this and that. I wish he'd shut up already.

[Dynamite Kid]

Tyson by KO, but if Rocky got past the 5th Tyson would probably fall to pieces. The guy had no heart for fight. He was only good for bullying people, but when they stood upto him he had no answers.

[NakiFan]

Tyson by brutality.

[komatoz]

mike tyson would bite that ear out of rocky marciano, tyson by murder as well

[Xplosivo]

Tyson by murder