..JOE CALZAGHE: What's Fair...

[Guest]

Pisspac, can you now see the humour in this?

[Guest]

Actually, a fight between Moby and Eastman would have been pretty good to watch. Pointless now as the guy's on the slide (Eastman, not Moby) but as a fantasy match up.

[badnewsbrown]

no doubt he's very talented. his slapping is not good to watch at all. its a shame as he was good puncher back in the day. he's got too many bums on his record tho and thats not frank warrens fault. i think joe has only recently found confidence in himself.

[bsrizpac]

Pisspac, can you now see the humour in this?

5 years ago called, it wants it's flamewar back...

[bsrizpac]

calderon i think you make some good points no matter what joe does it will never be enough, when hopkins defeatd pavlik i remember thinking that if joe had out in a similar performance (which he had against lacy) the first thing the americans say is that the guy was overated and never that good in the first place. with hopkins it was the opposite - oh the guys so clever and ring savvy blah blah. its these double standards for UK and USA fughters that annoys me more than anything.

i dont think JC is the best p4p fughter, i think pacman has that accolade and deserves it, i see JC being a 2nd with JMM close behind.

another thing that really annoys me is the lack of recognition that his title defenses recieve. imo if you were to compare the history of the MW and SMW divisions over the last 20 years or so there is only one clear winner. the SMW fighters however are alot of the time europeans which is why i dont think it recieves its due credit especially from US fans.

take it a step further and look at the quality of opposition that its 2 dominant champions (calzahe and hopkins) fought and again joes competition imo edges it.

i can see ppl are hating on him especially from the US but think about it has the US produced any top class SMW's that joe ducked? RJJ had his mind on HW belts, toney never had the discipline to get down to 12 st and then of course theres hopkins. hopkins clearly ducked joe in 2002 and ended up going for another defnse that didn't make it half as much. the one time a US fighter came along in joes weight class we all kow what happened.

imo joe is an ATG.

And the crying and insecurity about US fans continues.

Get over it.

Maybe it had to do with how old Hopkins was? If Calzaghe beat Pavlik in his prime at 43, the way Hopkins did, I'd be the first to say wow.

Get a grip fanboy.

I'm not going to dissect your post, it's a bit too easy, but I will say: SMW? The whole point has been that it's not a great division. But you must've missed that.

[hookoutofhell]

And the crying and insecurity about US fans continues.

Get over it.

Maybe it had to do with how old Hopkins was? If Calzaghe beat Pavlik in his prime at 43, the way Hopkins did, I'd be the first to say wow.

Get a grip fanboy.

I'm not going to dissect your post, it's a bit too easy, but I will say: SMW? The whole point has been that it's not a great division. But you must've missed that.

fair enough, you make a good point thatJC was more or less in his prime when he beat lacy and that hopkins wasn't when he took on pavlik, but i bet that if JC had beat pavlik the talk would have been more about pavlik and him being overated rather than joe being a great fighter.

oh and i argued a point that SMW is imo a better division than MW - maybe you missed that?

its not always been the case but i think the talent in the SMW division is alot better. there was of course the period in the late 80's and early 90's and recent;y the division has looked strong as well.

[bsrizpac]

fair enough, you make a good point thatJC was more or less in his prime when he beat lacy and that hopkins wasn't when he took on pavlik, but i bet that if JC had beat pavlik the talk would have been more about pavlik and him being overated rather than joe being a great fighter.

oh and i argued a point that SMW is imo a better division than MW - maybe you missed that?

its not always been the case but i think the talent in the SMW division is alot better. there was of course the period in the late 80's and early 90's and recent;y the division has looked strong as well.

Wahoo. Your argument essentially is "I bet that....because USA posters are biased against poor Joe and all Brits".

And yet, I don't see this kind of Venom towards Lennox Lewis. Maybe it's Joe who never stepped up and took any real challenges until it was too late, hmmm? You should be more angry at HIM than Joe haters....

Also essentially you are arguing that dog **** is better than horse **** when comparing the current SMW to MW. Awesome.

SMW is still filled with a ton of worthless no-name assclowns. And Kessler, a guy who has yet to beat anyone of note.

[THe TRiNiTY]

For those that said that the poll didn't have many options, I did that on purpose.

This thread was to reach out to only his most extreme followers, be it those that hate or love him.

The Neutral was thrown in as simply something someone could vote on if he or she had read this but didn't happen to be a overzealous fan or a hater.

[nathan_nall]

A lot of boxing fans, ESPECIALLY on this forum seem to be extremists about whatever topic they seem to be discussing. With Joe Calzaghe, it's no exception.

What I want to know is, what's ACTUALLY fair.

He was considered a protected European fighter, then he invited over two outside fighters in Jeff Lacy (U.S.A.) and Mikkel Kessler (Denmark) and beat them both convincingly. Both by comfortable unanimous decisions. Giving BOTH fighters their first losses, both while they were ranked LEGIT number one contenders.

Then, people use the idea that he needs to fight outside of his comfort zone, meaning his own country. So, he comes over to America and fights Bernard Hopkins (12SD) and Roy Jones Jr. (12UD). When he beat both of them back-to-back, people said that he was only fighting old, faded fighters.

Now, people want him to fight YOUNGER fighters. Chad Dawson, Lucian Bute Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor being the names thrown around. Meanwhile, he's been going for a LONG time about leaving the sport for a long while now.

Realistically, all of this is a bit unfair. Literally, every step of the way for him, he's always falling short in terms of what American fans want from him. They'll always want more from him.

My question to the haters.. What could he possibly do to make you actually appreciate him?

Now, as to his overzealous fans....

You seem to constantly mention that he has hand problems, therefore he has more of a slap then a powerpunch. But, Arturo Gatti had MAJOR hand problems, he threw (relatively) accurate punches, and his combinations we all actual punches.

His style, while affective, can be hard to watch when he can't EXACTLY find his rhythm. You guys seem to blame Hopkins for the boring fight they had, but a fighter that wants to win big and CLEAN, makes the fight exciting by pressing. And while he threw a lot of punches and outlanded him, he didn't look spectacular.

You also want to make the claim that he's the number one p4p fighter in the world. That's just wrong. Unless Marquez and Pacquiao have died this morning, Calzaghe sits at number three. Nothing wrong with that.

He MIGHT be the best Super-Middleweight in the history of the division, but it's not liek the division is STACKED with this incredible history. Some of you make it seem like it's the welterweight division of the 80's.

My question to the Calzaghe fans, why do you try to build him up SUBSTANTIALLY higher than he should be. He's a great fighter, is there neeed for the hype? Or, is he better than even I'M giving him credit for?


My point to this thread is to get both sides of the debate with this guy. He's generally either loved or hated. It's hardly ever in between, so I wanna see what is so polarizing about the guy.

Vote. Discuss.

No need to debate, you put it perfectly.
I'm a middle man myself but I tend to side with the Calzaghe fanatics over the haters. The fanatics at least will put their golden child against anyone! The haters don't have a leg to stand on because the same people they promote... have already been beaten by Joe.

[S A M U R A I]

For those that said that the poll didn't have many options, I did that on purpose.

This thread was to reach out to only his most extreme followers, be it those that hate or love him.

It's not quite fair. I think Joe is a great fighter. Love him? No! That's reserved for my family, my girlfriend, etc.



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