Can we all agree that Calzaghe ****ed up in fighting RJJ and not Pavlik?

[Silencers]

His win against Hopkins gets more credit, yes. But its essentially riding on the coat-tails of another man's win. He should have done it himself.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on whether it was a **** up or not.

I think it was.

Going for RJJ proved nothing. Even the detractors couldn't have argued that Slappy picking a young, prime opponent that everyone wanted him to fight was a bad thing.

Quite a lot of great fighters have beaten other fighters who went on to do things to enhance the great fighters' legacy, a little bit different but Leonard's win over Hearns in their first fight, no one knew Hearns was going to go on to do what he did, but once he did, it made Leonard's win look that much better.

I didn't like the Calzaghe vs Jones fight, I always thought there was no point to it but I just don't feel that Calzaghe not fighting Pavlik was a **** up, even though it may look better for him to have beaten Pavlik, it's not like it's a monumental **** up.

And there will always be detractors who will find a way to take away from a Calzaghe win over Pavlik.

Again, a little different but it's like saying Roberto Duran moving up to fight Leonard instead of fighting Arguello detracts from his legacy.

Agree to disagree indeed.

[Abstraction]

minion you're right
but in the history books a win over hopkins and rjj looks alot better
people won't remember pavlik as much as hopkins & rjj
as good as pavlik was.
its a bit like lennox lewis beating michael grant or andrew golota
they were good wins but it was his victories over tyson and holyfield
that people remember.

They said something similar about Larry Holmes and Berbick beating an old Ali.
Something similar about Holyfield beating an old Foreman.
Something similar about Lewis beating an old Tyson
etc. etc.

[sparked_85]

Yeah legacy-wise.

But essentially as a human-being, you're taking the fight that's worth more money.

I guess Pav/Calzaghe would have been pretty big, if they marketed it right. But RJJ is RJJ.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves-that it is prizefighting. Ask yourself who would you fight? if you were Joe Calzaghe.

The thing is Joe Calzaghe fans' get accused of putting Joe Calzaghe on a pedastal but anyone who crtiques Joe continuously puts him on one far higher.

Joe should do this, Joe should do that. Yeah, we hope he would do this and that, but what he does, is what makes the most sense, you know...like a normal person.

[cuzfozzy]

pavlik should never have taken the fight with hopkins. he should of held out
for a calzaghe fight.

[Porter's Dad]

Yeah legacy-wise.

But essentially as a human-being, you're taking the fight that's worth more money.

I guess Pav/Calzaghe would have been pretty big, if they marketed it right. But RJJ is RJJ.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves-that it is prizefighting. Ask yourself who would you fight? if you were Joe Calzaghe.

The thing is Joe Calzaghe fans' get accused of putting Joe Calzaghe on a pedastal but anyone who crtiques Joe continuously puts him on one far higher.

Joe should do this, Joe should do that. Yeah, we hope he would do this and that, but what he does, is what makes the most sense, you know...like a normal person.

I'm sorry man, but that's ridiculous. Sometimes you have to go with the fight that's gonna cement your legacy, not give you a few extra million you can enjoy on top of the other millions you have.

I don't just get onto Calslappy's back over this. I abhor the idea of Floyd looking to fight Hatton again. By your logic, Hatton vs Floyd 2 is justifiable over Floyd vs Cotto/Margs/Williams.

If you're gonna go with the money...fine. Just don't expect respect from fans who only want to see the best match-ups, not pension fights.

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

Oh yeah? Try telling that to B-Hop. The respect that he has garnered on this very forum since that win over Pavlik has been immense. He will always be the guy who took out the middleweight champion who was knocking everyone out.

This is an interesting point, but more nuanced than you present it. So much of the acclaim Hopkins received had to do with his underdog status in the fight and the 'rolling back the years' fashion in which he won it, after a few years of cagey, less aggressive performances, Kelly's path of destruction, Hopkins' age combined with coming off the Calzaghe 'loss', which a lot of people took as proof of him being done and saw him written off in some quarters. Joe would have been the favorite against Pavlik, and so would have gotten less acclaim for giving Pavlik a boxing lesson.

I don't see how slapping Pavlik up would have done much more for Joe than roughing up Roy did. The difference is, Roy Jones Jr. is a better name to have on your rap sheet, and, still a more lucrative fight, even if 225k in PPV sales isn't setting any records.

[sparked_85]

I'm sorry man, but that's ridiculous. Sometimes you have to go with the fight that's gonna cement your legacy, not give you a few extra million you can enjoy on top of the other millions you have.

I don't just get onto Calslappy's back over this. I abhor the idea of Floyd looking to fight Hatton again. By your logic, Hatton vs Floyd 2 is justifiable over Floyd vs Cotto/Margs/Williams.

If you're gonna go with the money...fine. Just don't expect respect from fans who only want to see the best match-ups, not pension fights.

You just expanded on my point, I agree with you.

Normally the best fight for the most money takes place between the best two fighters. Not anymore. Is that the fighters fault? not really, no.

[hammerhiem]

I'm sure his bank manager disagree's.

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

Joe gets a lot more from beating Dawson than if he'd battered Pavlik. That's the one he should take, if we're talking the L word.

[Addition]

Calzaghe missed a big oppurtunity in my opinion. Pavlik was a big star and beating him would've elvated his status. Look what that win has done for Hopkins, it just improved his resume to another level. He probably would've made more money fight Pavlik as opposed to RJJ if you included the PPV sales.

But then again this is Calzaghe we are talking about haters would find an excuse if Calzaghe beat Pavlik. "Pavlik was ill, he had Bronchitis"