De La Hoya-Pacquiao: Are You Buying the Hard Sell?

[JunglistSoldja]

The article is flawed and holds no weight at all, it holds about as much weight as a turd.

[Pullcounter]

another good article...

neither guy wants to be the bad guy, tho obviously dlh is the bad guy for picking on midgets.

crold's point about dlh is fighting to prove he's not shot is correct. that's not a great reason to predicate a mega-fight.

[crold1]

another good article...

neither guy wants to be the bad guy, tho obviously dlh is the bad guy for picking on midgets.

crold's point about dlh is fighting to prove he's not shot is correct. that's not a great reason to predicate a mega-fight.

I think the fact he took the fight says Oscar doesn't think he's shot. Read his interview at Ring today; he talks about this fight like its a formality because he knows it should be if he's got some tank.

[Jose Rizal]

This is probably the best, and certainly the most perceptive article I've read this year, and, possibly, since I began reading BoxingScene, many years ago.

The write has said EVERYTHING which has absolutely NEEDED to have been said about this fight, has looked into every aspect, and every point, both pro and con.

I, myself, not long ago used the Jimmy McLarnin example, but the realised after, that Jimmy was only a "flyweight, bantamweight, feather" and so on, up to welter where he finally settled, I say he was only those lighter weights because he began fighting at a very early age. Therefore he was a growing kid, who grew taller and heavier, and matured into a Welterweight. He had a trainer/manager, who promised Jimmy's parents trhatbhe'd look after him well. .............

And he did, piloting him to several world Championships, and looked after his money, invested it well and turned Jimmy into a prosperous businessman when his career was over. "Pops" Foster managed only Jimmy, and when Jimmy retired, so did he.

I've heard Jimmy on TV several times, and even though he fought in a very tough era, and had many battles, he was as sharp in his old age, as a needle. Probably was, as i recall, very hard to hit cleanly, which stood him well.

Another point, the only correction, and a poor one at that, needed for this fine article, is that the Ceferino Garcia-Henry Armstrong fight was, as I recall (and always open to correction) only for the "NEW YORK version" of the 160 lb title, a single state, and very contrived at that....like this Manny-Oscar fight.

Also, I do believe that they were both inside the welterweight limit, or very close to it. Certainly I believe that Armstrong never weighed more than 140 for any of his fights, being a true featherweight, who was as tough as nails. Here again I can be corrected, and here again I say this is the finest article of this year for sure.

Anyone who says differently will have to fight ME.

All line up on the left...........

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Pacquiao in this “Dream Match” with those past greats based on this single fight, now is it? But that’s what the writer was saying and he makes it worse by noting how Manny’s been fighting only career featherweights at 130. He failed to mention that Pac himself wasn’t even a career bantamweight when he first took on Barrera. The fact is, almost nobody gave him a chance of winning that one, but he not only beat the top featherweight at the time and one who was regarded as highly as top 3 in most credible pound-for-pound lists, he completely dominated him and he did it in his first go at 126.

At 130, Morales might have been a career featherweight but he not only proved that he belonged there, for a time he was THE King before his archrival Barrera joined the move up to meet him for a 3rd time in a rejuvenation of Marco’s career. When Manny lost to Erik, I remember all the talk about how small he was and that he looked no more than a natural 126-pounder at best, but as he redeemed himself, gradually grew into the weight and worked his way up the pound-for-pound rankings, a lot of people have been changing their tune about his journey from 108 up to 135.

It’s not the fault of these featherweights for missing out on Floyd, Corrales or Casa, but Marquez’s first fight at 135 was with Casa and he destroyed him handily. Yes I know that was an aging Casa, but JMM is no spring chicken either, while Casa was the lineal 135 Champ and was bigger, wasn’t he? That must account for something and that win speaks volumes of how special that batch of featherweights really is and how the writer is underrating not only Manny, but them as well. It’s also not fair to judge Pac when the last page of the Book of Pacquiao has yet to be written. No one knows if he’ll take his legacy even further then where it is now.

And another thing, he goes on a litany of reasons why Pac-DLH is a hard sell but he is quick to bunch DLH-PBF with those fights that he felt gave a ”feeling of two great fighters guaranteed to be at the top of their game.” Jeez… talk about a hard sell. It was a fight wherein Oscar was still competitive, but one where almost anyone with any competent boxing knowledge knew that it wasn’t the same Oscar that locked horns with Tito or Feroz and he was in against one of the most skilled fighters in boxing history that was in his prime and touted the world’s #1 pound-for-pound. Oscar had a legit shot at winning that night had he stuck to a game plan, which shows he’s far from being washed up. Over-the-hill… maybe, but he can still hang with the best of them.

Fast forward a little over a year and here’s midget Pac up from his first foray at lightweight to take him on and Oscar will be conveniently and automatically labeled a shot fighter if he loses…lol. Nah… that’s being unfair to the little guy and disregarding the clear and bigger risk (bigger than Floyd) he’s taking with the prospect of suffering a brutal beating from a fighter who has traded blows with much bigger and more formidable opponents, but if he comes out victorious it’s only because Oscar is finished?! Yet Floyd beat an Oscar who was tops? For crying out loud… the writer’s logic is tearing at the seams in that one.

And he’s comparing this to Camacho-Leonard? Please… Sugar hadn’t fought in six years since the Norris loss and was a ripe old 41 in that misguided comeback. Now this article is a hard sell if I ever saw one.

[JunglistSoldja]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Pacquiao in this “Dream Match” with those past greats based on this single fight, now is it? But that’s what the writer was saying and he makes it worse by noting how Manny’s been fighting only career featherweights at 130. He failed to mention that Pac himself wasn’t even a career bantamweight when he first took on Barrera. The fact is, almost nobody gave him a chance of winning that one, but he not only beat the top featherweight at the time and one who was regarded as highly as top 3 in most credible pound-for-pound lists, he completely dominated him and he did it in his first go at 126.

At 130, Morales might have been a career featherweight but he not only proved that he belonged there, for a time he was THE King before his archrival Barrera joined the move up to meet him for a 3rd time in a rejuvenation of Marco’s career. When Manny lost to Erik, I remember all the talk about how small he was and that he looked no more than a natural 126-pounder at best, but as he redeemed himself, gradually grew into the weight and worked his way up the pound-for-pound rankings, a lot of people have been changing their tune about his journey from 108 up to 135.

It’s not the fault of these featherweights for missing out on Floyd, Corrales or Casa, but Marquez’s first fight at 135 was with Casa and he destroyed him handily. Yes I know that was an aging Casa, but JMM is no spring chicken either, while Casa was the lineal 135 Champ and was bigger, wasn’t he? That must account for something and that win speaks volumes of how special that batch of featherweights really is and how the writer is underrating not only Manny, but them as well. It’s also not fair to judge Pac when the last page of the Book of Pacquiao has yet to be written. No one knows if he’ll take his legacy even further then where it is now.

And another thing, he goes on a litany of reasons why Pac-DLH is a hard sell but he is quick to bunch DLH-PBF with those fights that he felt gave a ”feeling of two great fighters guaranteed to be at the top of their game.” Jeez… talk about a hard sell. It was a fight wherein Oscar was still competitive, but one where almost anyone with any competent boxing knowledge knew that it wasn’t the same Oscar that locked horns with Tito or Feroz and he was in against one of the most skilled fighters in boxing history that was in his prime and touted the world’s #1 pound-for-pound. Oscar had a legit shot at winning that night had he stuck to a game plan, which shows he’s far from being washed up. Over-the-hill… maybe, but he can still hang with the best of them.

Fast forward a little over a year and here’s midget Pac up from his first foray at lightweight to take him on and Oscar will be conveniently and automatically labeled a shot fighter if he loses…lol. Nah… that’s being unfair to the little guy and disregarding the clear and bigger risk (bigger than Floyd) he’s taking with the prospect of suffering a brutal beating from a fighter who has traded blows with much bigger and more formidable opponents, but if he comes out victorious it’s only because Oscar is finished?! Yet Floyd beat an Oscar who was tops? For crying out loud… the writer’s logic is tearing at the seams in that one.

And he’s comparing this to Camacho-Leonard? Please… Sugar hadn’t fought in six years since the Norris loss and was a ripe old 41 in that misguided comeback. Now this article is a hard sell if I ever saw one.

I wanted to say something similar to this but was far too lazy to go through with it.

Good post

[JOM'S]

there are some good points on the article but sad to say it focuses more on the negatives and down playing of the fight...

Pac-ODLH may not be the "Dream Match" everyone is dreaming of, but it is a dream fight for both fighters Oscar and PAC and I am opptimistic that this fight would provide fireworks and at some degree live up to the hype...

[Jose Rizal]

I wanted to say something similar to this but was far too lazy to go through with it.

Good post

Yeah why even bother. A lot of people here have their minds set already. It gets tiring.

[Pullcounter]

I think the fact he took the fight says Oscar doesn't think he's shot. Read his interview at Ring today; he talks about this fight like its a formality because he knows it should be if he's got some tank.

that doesn't make sense though... if oscar wants to prove he's not shot he should fight margarito or pwill or even cotto.

[edgarg]

even though i think manny chose this fight only for the money, people should give him credit for accepting the bout. he has beaten great fighters and hes on his way to being one of the best ever. but for all the oscar fans out there, i dont know what you guys are going to be rooting for, because if oscar wins or loses, its still a loss in my opinion.

not only a loss on record, but on his legacy and reputation. he has lost a lot of respect from millions of fans(including mexicans) and boxers alike. the oscar who only fought the best is no longer who he is(even though he got beat by nearly every great boxer he fought, he took challenges) now is the oscar who looks to fight opponents he can bully around( floyd, forbes, manny)

but no matter how much i hate this gimmick event, of course i'll tune in. all boxing fans will watch as well, because if manny pulls it off, then its a historic moment. if you dont want to pay 60$ plus tax to watch this, no problem, go to your local club,strip club,hotel(holiday inn, el palacio,etc) they always show the fight for free.

oh yeah, and the fights on the undercard will suck tremendously, so think twice if youre gonna pay

Oscar hardly ever fought the best....when they were the best. He waited....and waited....and then he and his team thought about it...and he waited...and THEN it became the biggest fight of the century.

[edgarg]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare Pacquiao in this “Dream Match” with those past greats based on this single fight, now is it? But that’s what the writer was saying and he makes it worse by noting how Manny’s been fighting only career featherweights at 130. He failed to mention that Pac himself wasn’t even a career bantamweight when he first took on Barrera. The fact is, almost nobody gave him a chance of winning that one, but he not only beat the top featherweight at the time and one who was regarded as highly as top 3 in most credible pound-for-pound lists, he completely dominated him and he did it in his first go at 126.

At 130, Morales might have been a career featherweight but he not only proved that he belonged there, for a time he was THE King before his archrival Barrera joined the move up to meet him for a 3rd time in a rejuvenation of Marco’s career. When Manny lost to Erik, I remember all the talk about how small he was and that he looked no more than a natural 126-pounder at best, but as he redeemed himself, gradually grew into the weight and worked his way up the pound-for-pound rankings, a lot of people have been changing their tune about his journey from 108 up to 135.

It’s not the fault of these featherweights for missing out on Floyd, Corrales or Casa, but Marquez’s first fight at 135 was with Casa and he destroyed him handily. Yes I know that was an aging Casa, but JMM is no spring chicken either, while Casa was the lineal 135 Champ and was bigger, wasn’t he? That must account for something and that win speaks volumes of how special that batch of featherweights really is and how the writer is underrating not only Manny, but them as well. It’s also not fair to judge Pac when the last page of the Book of Pacquiao has yet to be written. No one knows if he’ll take his legacy even further then where it is now.

And another thing, he goes on a litany of reasons why Pac-DLH is a hard sell but he is quick to bunch DLH-PBF with those fights that he felt gave a ”feeling of two great fighters guaranteed to be at the top of their game.” Jeez… talk about a hard sell. It was a fight wherein Oscar was still competitive, but one where almost anyone with any competent boxing knowledge knew that it wasn’t the same Oscar that locked horns with Tito or Feroz and he was in against one of the most skilled fighters in boxing history that was in his prime and touted the world’s #1 pound-for-pound. Oscar had a legit shot at winning that night had he stuck to a game plan, which shows he’s far from being washed up. Over-the-hill… maybe, but he can still hang with the best of them.

Fast forward a little over a year and here’s midget Pac up from his first foray at lightweight to take him on and Oscar will be conveniently and automatically labeled a shot fighter if he loses…lol. Nah… that’s being unfair to the little guy and disregarding the clear and bigger risk (bigger than Floyd) he’s taking with the prospect of suffering a brutal beating from a fighter who has traded blows with much bigger and more formidable opponents, but if he comes out victorious it’s only because Oscar is finished?! Yet Floyd beat an Oscar who was tops? For crying out loud… the writer’s logic is tearing at the seams in that one.

And he’s comparing this to Camacho-Leonard? Please… Sugar hadn’t fought in six years since the Norris loss and was a ripe old 41 in that misguided comeback. Now this article is a hard sell if I ever saw one.

Your letter is far too long for me to pick it to pieces, which I could, believe me. I'll just point out that Leonard may have been 41, but he'd made that bucket of money which had eluded Camacho, and don't forget that Camacho was not in his prime, and fighting 4 or 5 weight classes above his own prime, and still only 5'6", much smaller than Leonard. He was just better than him on a lb4lb basis.