the hypothetical mystery heavyweight.

[AntonTheMeh]

if there was a heavyweight,
who came from out of the shadows,
had a match ups vs wald, vitali, and haye,
and beat them all,
considering the athletes that these three men are, their size advantages,
and there boxing skills,

where would you rank him all time?

[Benny Leonard]

if there was a heavyweight,
who came from out of the shadows,
had a match ups vs wald, vitali, and haye,
and beat them all,
considering the athletes that these three men are, their size advantages,
and there boxing skills,

where would you rank him all time?

As long as this person is undefeated going in and dominates them/knocks them out, considering Marciano was undefeated and fought who he did and is ranked by many in their top 10 for that reason, I would say he cracks the top 10. Hell, if Tyson retired right after the Spinks fight like he hinted I would put him in my top 10 simply to make my point with Marciano being in there. It’s also hard to make lists because you have to judge a fighter by his era even though you start to question if Fighter “A” could really beat Fighter “B”…or even more of a thought, would that fighter lose to certain “contenders” in another era.

Wlad's a good fighter and his size, strength, skill, and speed will be a hard fight for anybody...but he does have his weakness with chin and stamina (from nerves). And because of these weaknesses, I can see many of the elites, if not all, bothering. Wlad's not a fighter I have confidence in in thinking he stands a good chance to win every time out. He's just not as dominate as I would like from a Champion. And the sad thing is, it's not like he is past his best and doesn't have a good head on his shoulders in where he blew it mentally outside the ring. Lewis was knocked out twice before but Lewis never made me concerned the way Wlad does every time he fights.

Vitali: he's the best of the lot and if you beat him by KO, that's something in my book. He lost twice by TKO, first was a ***** move and the second he couldn't help. But the Man is good even if he looks awkward. But I wouldn't put a win over him at this point in his career the same way I would have at the time he fought Lewis. I just don't know how much he has left even though he beat Peter.

Haye: we'll see how good he is but in any other era he would be a decent size Heavy, if not on the bigger side. He was a Cruiser who like everybody else today, drains weight for the fight, so he is probably a natural 210-220 guy when on a regular diet. He also has the same advantage Ali and Holyfield had in that they were able to fight at a smaller weight to get their reflexes sharp and bring that into a division that tends to be filled with slower plodding fighters. His ability to take a shot, both to the chin and body are still iffy. I just think, Haye is skilled but what if he fought Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, etc. His ability to move is key, but he is no Larry Holmes or Ali...far from it.

[AntonTheMeh]

As long as this person is undefeated going in and dominates them/knocks them out, considering Marciano was undefeated and fought who he did and is ranked by many in their top 10 for that reason, I would say he cracks the top 10. Hell, if Tyson retired right after the Spinks fight like he hinted I would put him in my top 10 simply to make my point with Marciano being in there. It’s also hard to make lists because you have to judge a fighter by his era even though you start to question if Fighter “A” could really beat Fighter “B”…or even more of a thought, would that fighter lose to certain “contenders” in another era.

Wlad's a good fighter and his size, strength, skill, and speed will be a hard fight for anybody...but he does have his weakness with chin and stamina (from nerves). And because of these weaknesses, I can see many of the elites, if not all, bothering. Wlad's not a fighter I have confidence in in thinking he stands a good chance to win every time out. He's just not as dominate as I would like from a Champion. And the sad thing is, it's not like he is past his best and doesn't have a good head on his shoulders in where he blew it mentally outside the ring. Lewis was knocked out twice before but Lewis never made me concerned the way Wlad does every time he fights.

Vitali: he's the best of the lot and if you beat him by KO, that's something in my book. He lost twice by TKO, first was a ***** move and the second he couldn't help. But the Man is good even if he looks awkward. But I wouldn't put a win over him at this point in his career the same way I would have at the time he fought Lewis. I just don't know how much he has left even though he beat Peter.

Haye: we'll see how good he is but in any other era he would be a decent size Heavy, if not on the bigger side. He was a Cruiser who like everybody else today, drains weight for the fight, so he is probably a natural 210-220 guy when on a regular diet. He also has the same advantage Ali and Holyfield had in that they were able to fight at a smaller weight to get their reflexes sharp and bring that into a division that tends to be filled with slower plodding fighters. His ability to take a shot, both to the chin and body are still iffy. I just think, Haye is skilled but what if he fought Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, etc. His ability to move is key, but he is no Larry Holmes or Ali...far from it.

i agree with some aspects about your wlad and vitali arguments.but i don''t think any of the greatest heavyweights of all time where flawless.ali wasn't that big a puncher for a heavyweight(cause of his style IMO)
louis was a slow footed,(comparable to what i think a flawless heavy should have if i where to build one).so i don't think wlad is a total headcase.in his loses it seemed like he might have folded by the pressure.
vitali is very unorthodox, but its his unorthodoxy that makes him damn near unbeatable vs ANYBODY in an all time hypothetical match up.
haye to me on the other hand, should have been at heavy all along.his defensive lapses, showboating with his left hand down makes him even more susceptible to getting hurt, being a boxer puncher who comes for the kill as well as his beard not so stellar beard.
personally i think haye will make some noise, but it'd be nice to hear something all ready