Prime Joe Calzaghe vs Prime Bernard Hopkins

[Mrvooh]

Too close to call...both are superior in my view

[Dan...]

he fought like **** beause thats how he fights against fighters who force him into a high paced fight. saying that bernard fought like **** because of bernard is a slight elbow in the ribs to JC. you're implying that bernard fought like that because of himself and not really giving JC the credit he deserves for making bernard fight his fight and as a result making him look like ****.

and yeah iv sen hopkins in his rpime which was imo around about the tito fight but i also think he didn't come up against anyone who was as good as Joe. That is of course until he came up against J taylor and we both know what happenend then, whether or not he lost is still disputed but the bottom line is near prime Hopkins struggled to keep up with a young, albeit flawed fighter.

its no coincidence that whenever hes fought fighters who are elite fighters and physically his own size (RJJ, taylor, pavlik, calzaghe, tarver) he hasn't done as well as he has against other fighters from further below (DLH, wright, tito).

thats why i rate hopkins win against tarver one of his best wins - he was fighting a genuine fighter, a champion and he came out on top. iv never really been one who looks at the resumes and the names but rather the longevity, consistency and their style to form an opinion of the fighter.


oh and people are suddenly saying that benard has improved since hes got older (page 4 of this thread i think under danc1984)!! WTF!!!!! one fight ago people were saying the complete opposite - one performance against an over rated punk in Pavlik later and suddenly no hes not on the decline hes on the ****in improving!!! unbelievable!!!

I think it was a combination of the two with regard to Bernard's performance against Joe. Sure Joe kept a very high pace and Bernard didn't like it but there is still no way the Hopkins that fought Calzaghe was at the same level as the one that fought Pavlik. HE barely through a combination in the Calzaghe fight. Against Pavlik he was dancing around like a school kid and throwing quick 4 and 5 punch combos.

So Hopkins didn't "do well" against Tarver and Pavlik? He didn't fight as well in thos fights as he did against Wright? Are you fkn serious? Wow.

"I've never been one to look at names and resumes" you say. Not to sound like a Calzaghe hater but is it surprising that a lot of Joe fans like to take this stance?

And Hopkins has improved with age and then declined. Against the likes of Wright and Calzaghe he was nowhere near the level he was at against say Trinidad. And as good as he was against Pavlik he still wasn't a prime Hopkins of 5 or 6 years ago.

[Dan...]

calzaghe didnt have ****ed up hands back in his prime days so i think your ****** really.

I know I shouldn't bother with you because you are clearly a fkn moron without a clue, but please explain to me in which fights Calzaghe has shown what it would take to knock out Hopkins?

Bernard has great defence and is practically impossible to hurt. What top level fighter with a great chin and great defence has Joe stopped? He couldn't even stop Jeff fkn Lacy despite the fact that he beat the certified piss out of him for 12 complete rounds. He couldn't stop, and didn't even get close to stopping, Mikkel Kessler either.

You basically are a fool who doesn't have a clue what you are talking about. Either go and educate yourself or get the fk off the boards and stop wasting everyone's time with your fkn dribble.

****.

[Pugilistic™]

i think stamina excuse has become exactly that an excuse - hopkins fans are hiding beind it sayig if Hopkins was younger he wouldn't hav tired so quickly.

i dont buy that. im not saying that it wasn't a factor in the fight of course it was, it was one of the reasons he lost. However give credit to Joe, he made him tired by forcing the action, by forcing Hopkins to constantly move and and keep duckig, covering with feints and clever footwork.

Hopkins was tired but he was losing the fightlong before he was getting tired - after round 4 i cant recall him getting the counter right hand off and hitting the target. Joe took it away from him, he started to tire imo in round 9.

But like i said he was already losing the fight long before that.

You say that i used Hopkins stamina as an excuse to why he lost then admit that it was a factor in the fight ??

I have to agree with one thing you said, I feel Hopkins didn't tire till the 9th round. I felt each fighter were trading rounds in the middle stages. I think i scored rounds 5 and 7 to Calzaghe and scoring 6 and 8 to B-Hop. Hopkins downfall was simply not throwing enough, Calzaghe would win rounds by simply throwing more, he wasn't effective and wasn't landing most of the time but Hopkins wasn't throwing which would give him rounds.When Hopkins did throw punches he was accurate, effective and would win rounds when consistent.

Joe did a good job of forcing the fight and tiring hops out, but overall he didn't put on a good performance.

[Dan...]

I just think Joe has B-Hop's number as far as styles go. I think Joe's style would always overwhelm Bernard's meticulous strategy. I'm a believer of there's a reason why boxer A wasn't able to do this to boxer B. Not of what boxer B could've done. Prime for Prime to me I still think Joe 'pulls it off'. Won't be a good win, but pulls it off regardless.

The thing I don't understand is that in the first half of the fight, when Hopkins had legs, his style clearly gave Joe absolute hell. It wasn't until BHop slowed down that Joe start to got the better of him and was able to completely overwhelm Hopkins with his workrate. That suggests to me that a prime Hopkins with good stamina and stronger legs would have given Joe a massive amount of trouble. He would have been able to continually throw that straight counter right down the pipe through Calzaghe's wide and looping shots all night and then follow it up with good movement and quick combinations for a full 12 round fight. It is the "styles make fights" argument that sees the fight going to Hopkins for mine.

[S A M U R A I]

It's hard to say who'd win. Impossible, pretty much, but I'd say Calzaghe outworks Bernard to a UD. Calzaghe used to have lots of power, and Bernard would feel those shots, most definitely. Joe has never even been close to being KO'd, so rule this one out. I can't see 'Nard out-hustling a young Calzaghe. So for me, Joe wins.



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[daggum]

calzaghe used to have power? no
calzaghe has never been close to being ko'd? salem and mitchell had him out
how does calzaghe win? everytime hopkins threw punches he hit him and a prime hopkins threw a lot more punches. calzaghe the fraud would be ko'd quickly.

[S A M U R A I]

calzaghe used to have power? no
calzaghe has never been close to being ko'd? salem and mitchell had him out
how does calzaghe win? everytime hopkins threw punches he hit him and a prime hopkins threw a lot more punches. calzaghe the fraud would be ko'd quickly.

Man, you are such an annoying twat.



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[MELLY-MEL...]

hopkins ud.

[S A M U R A I]

I know I shouldn't bother with you because you are clearly a fkn moron without a clue, but please explain to me in which fights Calzaghe has shown what it would take to knock out Hopkins?

Bernard has great defence and is practically impossible to hurt. What top level fighter with a great chin and great defence has Joe stopped? He couldn't even stop Jeff fkn Lacy despite the fact that he beat the certified piss out of him for 12 complete rounds. He couldn't stop, and didn't even get close to stopping, Mikkel Kessler either.

You basically are a fool who doesn't have a clue what you are talking about. Either go and educate yourself or get the fk off the boards and stop wasting everyone's time with your fkn dribble.

****.

Nah, Kessler was pretty close to being KO'd in round 8. It wasn't until the ref jumped on Joe that Mikkel got to take a breather.


And Jeff Lacy fought Calzaghe after he'd damaged his hands. The damage came a while before the Lacy fight.



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