Mikkel Kessler-Daniloa Haussler Moved To Oldenburg

[dstew]

That's disingenious and misleading. I've already explained in this thread and put into context my use of the word duck. Said myself it's generally over used, and when saying it myself it's often playing devils advocate, and making the response of if this is a duck, than this is more of one. I've even said it pretty much in that sentence.

Given your explanation for using the word in this instance, I'd say you're the one being disingenuous and misleading. Here's an idea... STOP using it unless you mean it.

Joe has responded to Froch by saying he's not really on his radar or worthy of such a big fight, but maybe for the money. It's not much or been said often and I'd struggle to find it (bar one vid) but Froch whom isn't #1 in SMW, has no belts or as good opponents, is hardly more deserving of a big fight, than Kessler whom is #1, has a belt, and is a logical fight for a young Pavlik. Calzaghe is retiring may I remind you, if he fought on for 5 fights and didn't beat the top contendors whom were willing to fair enough. But that's not the case, and right now is the case for Pavlik. He has more logical fights from top guys with belts whom have called him out, which I've remarked is just more of a duck than anything Joes done, for reasons explained. That's all.

Well Kessler openly called him out in the media, and most fighters normally at least respond saying at least, perhaps in a few fights. He's not even done that. The name recognition stuff I've already explained my views on. It's a factor but not as overwhelmingly as some like to make out. Boxing is a global sport, and a true champion fights the top guys sooner or later, period. Sooner, he's not doing. Later, he's either vaguely said maybe, or not even responded. Calzaghe's not done this.

Seriously, stop using the word "duck" just to describe someone not responding to a verbal challenge, especially when it's a title holder. Pavlik's got everyone from Abraham to Calzaghe to Froch to Williams to Mora using his name. If he doesn't directly respond to one of them it's not a "duck," please stop using that word just to make Joe look better. It's pathetic. I mention Joe's name once and you go into fanboy defensive mode.

And Froch has not just called out Joe, he's called out Kessler as well, saying he would knock him out. To my knowledge Kessler has not responded to this challenge. Once again, that doesn't mean Kessler is ducking him just because Carl says its so. Same goes for Carl's charges against Taylor and Calzaghe as well. But the logic behind your statements implies that Kessler is ducking Carl Froch while calling out Kelly Pavlik, which makes absolutelyno****ingsense.

[Kris Silver]

There's that "duck" word being over used again. Here it's used to describe one boxer failing to comment about a challenge from another boxer. Seriously? Froch has been talking trash about Calzaghe, and I haven't heard Joe issue a response. Does that mean Joe is ducking Carl?

That's disingenious and misleading. I've already explained in this thread and put into context my use of the word duck. Said myself it's generally over used, and when saying it myself it's often playing devils advocate, and making the response of if this is a duck, than this is more of one. I've even said it pretty much in that sentence.

Joe has responded to Froch by saying he's not really on his radar or worthy of such a big fight, but maybe for the money. It's not much or been said often and I'd struggle to find it (bar one vid) but Froch whom isn't #1 in SMW, has no belts or as good opponents, is hardly more deserving of a big fight, than Kessler whom is #1, has a belt, and is a logical fight for a young Pavlik. Calzaghe is retiring may I remind you, if he fought on for 5 fights and didn't beat the top contendors whom were willing to fair enough. But that's not the case, and right now is the case for Pavlik. He has more logical fights from top guys with belts whom have called him out, which I've remarked is just more of a duck than anything Joes done, for reasons explained. That's all.

Also, back to the media - has anyone ASKED Pavlik about Kessler? Not that I recall. The boxing press is too busy asking him about Joe Calzaghe and Arthur Abraham. What do these two guys share that Kessler doesn't? They both had their last fights in the U.S. against American or American-based fighters with name recognition.

Well Kessler openly called him out in the media, and most fighters normally at least respond saying at least, perhaps in a few fights. He's not even done that. The name recognition stuff I've already explained my views on. It's a factor but not as overwhelmingly as some like to make out. Boxing is a global sport, and a true champion fights the top guys sooner or later, period. Sooner, he's not doing. Later, he's either vaguely said maybe, or not even responded. Calzaghe's not done this.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

taylors tune up fight is against one of calzaghes best wins. LOL.

One of Taylor's best wins, if not the best real win, was knocked out by Zab Judah LOL

[daggum]

taylors tune up fight is against one of calzaghes best wins. LOL.

[dstew]

Ive never said Taylor is afraid of Froch. But theres no doubt hes clearly avoided him. My point is that Taylor thinks money before the best fights. And we all know that the most money doesnt always equal the best fights and if Taylor keeps using that mantra, we may never see him in against Froch or Kessler.

Yeah Taylor has fought Pavlik. Kessler has fought Calzaghe who Taylor also avoided over money. I just hope he doesnt get KOed again before Froch gets to him. So what exactly is your argument here?

Im happy to let Taylor have a tune up fight but I was clearly responding to the criticism that Kessler seems to be getting Stateside whilst you'll all be watching Taylor vs Lacy as if it means something.

Lets just say I hope both step it up in their next fights.........hopefully against each other.

While the most money doesn't always equal the best fights, remember that sometimes it does or Taylor wouldn't have defended against Winky and Pavlik during his MW reign. So while fighting primarily for money can have its downside, it occasionally has its upside because Taylor, by his own words, "would fight the best fight for the most money." Meaning he would also step into the ring against top guys without thinking twice if it meant a better paycheck. So if Froch or Kessler do their part in bringing more notoriety to themselves, we will definitely see one or both of them fight Taylor.

My argument about you crediting Kessler for calling out Pavlik and Hopkins while criticizing Taylor, who has already had four fights with them, couldn't be clearer. Also, all things being equal, I give Taylor less flack for fighting Lacy than I give Kessler for fighting Haussler because Taylor is new to the division and unproven at 168, even furthering his need for a tune-up, while Kessler is a proven top SMW letting his time and talent be wasted.

Regardless, both these guys at one point or another have fought the best guys in their respective divisions and I think we can agree that we want them to get back to taking on bigger challenges.

[ragingvic]

I was wondering what the hell people were posting for 7 pages, under Kesslers fight being moved to Oldenburg. LOL.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

The only thing that is NOT speculation is that Taylor is avoiding a smaller paycheck for a fight that would add nothing to his resume.

You just said yourself "that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition," implying that if he were offered as much or more for Froch + the WBC belt as he was for Lacy, he would be fighting Froch for the bigger payday. Because that's what he's motivated by, right?

Regardless of what came out of Dibella's mouth in that interview about Froch being the more dangerous fight, he was also honest about the larger motives behind taking the Lacy fight - MONEY. Which you just acknowledged. Yet you and others have no qualms about implying that Taylor was "afraid" to fight Froch by saying he "avoided" him, "ducked" him, or however you want to phrase it, when it is HIGHLY probable based on Taylor's history that if Froch brought more $$$ than Lacy, we'd be seeing Taylor/Froch.

If you're going to criticize a fighter, at least be consistent with your reasoning.


What's hilarious about this is that you are lauding Kessler for calling out Pavlik and Hopkins while questioning Taylor's credibility... well guess what? Taylor's already fought Pavlik. And Hopkins.

Kessler had a comeback fight in Sartison. Let Taylor have his in Lacy. As bad as Lacy has looked lately, you cannot make a valid argument that he is any worse than Sartison, or that Kessler did himself any favors by going after an easy belt while Taylor has chosen not to do the same.

If Taylor's next fight is against someone of Haussler's quality, then by all means you can make a case against his credibility. But we know that won't happen, since he doesn't have a **** belt and won't be forced to fight **** mandatories. Sure, Jermain defended against smaller guys when he held the belts, but they were all head and shoulders fairer matched than Kessler's next opponent.

Ive never said Taylor is afraid of Froch. But theres no doubt hes clearly avoided him. My point is that Taylor thinks money before the best fights. And we all know that the most money doesnt always equal the best fights and if Taylor keeps using that mantra, we may never see him in against Froch or Kessler.

Yeah Taylor has fought Pavlik. Kessler has fought Calzaghe who Taylor also avoided over money. I just hope he doesnt get KOed again before Froch gets to him. So what exactly is your argument here?

Im happy to let Taylor have a tune up fight but I was clearly responding to the criticism that Kessler seems to be getting Stateside whilst you'll all be watching Taylor vs Lacy as if it means something.

Lets just say I hope both step it up in their next fights.........hopefully against each other.

[dstew]

The #1 SMW called out the #1 MW for the fall, and the #1 MW hasn't responded to indicate any real intention of taking it at some point. At the same time he's going above the SMW to fight someone else. That is a terrible state of affairs and far more of a duck.

There's that "duck" word being over used again. Here it's used to describe one boxer failing to comment about a challenge from another boxer. Seriously? Froch has been talking trash about Calzaghe, and I haven't heard Joe issue a response. Does that mean Joe is ducking Carl?

Also, back to the media - has anyone ASKED Pavlik about Kessler? Not that I recall. The boxing press is too busy asking him about Joe Calzaghe and Arthur Abraham. What do these two guys share that Kessler doesn't? They both had their last fights in the U.S. against American or American-based fighters with name recognition.

[dstew]

Most of your argument is based on the ridiculous premise that Taylor doesnt know who Froch is. Di Bella clearly does and proclaimed on live TV that he knew Froch was the harder fight. Taylor knows that too. Even if hes seen little of Froch, he realises fighting his demoralised Olympic buddy - who almost quit the sport is a safer bet.

Thats pretty much all speculation. You can speculate whether Kessler ducked Miranda all you want........but fact remains, you know that Taylor is flat out avoiding Froch because his team have admitted it. Whether Sartisan was an easier fight or not is again questionable as personally I think Miranda is a bucket of ****e.

What we know is that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition - again, something he has admitted on live TV.

The only thing that is NOT speculation is that Taylor is avoiding a smaller paycheck for a fight that would add nothing to his resume.

You just said yourself "that Taylor will fight for money over the best competition," implying that if he were offered as much or more for Froch + the WBC belt as he was for Lacy, he would be fighting Froch for the bigger payday. Because that's what he's motivated by, right?

Regardless of what came out of Dibella's mouth in that interview about Froch being the more dangerous fight, he was also honest about the larger motives behind taking the Lacy fight - MONEY. Which you just acknowledged. Yet you and others have no qualms about implying that Taylor was "afraid" to fight Froch by saying he "avoided" him, "ducked" him, or however you want to phrase it, when it is HIGHLY probable based on Taylor's history that if Froch brought more $$$ than Lacy, we'd be seeing Taylor/Froch.

If you're going to criticize a fighter, at least be consistent with your reasoning.

Whereas Kessler has called out Pavlik and others showing willingness to fight the best plus shown his unhappiness at having to fight Haussler. Kessler's career intentions sound more credible to me.

What's hilarious about this is that you are lauding Kessler for calling out Pavlik and Hopkins while questioning Taylor's credibility... well guess what? Taylor's already fought Pavlik. And Hopkins.

Kessler had a comeback fight in Sartison. Let Taylor have his in Lacy. As bad as Lacy has looked lately, you cannot make a valid argument that he is any worse than Sartison, or that Kessler did himself any favors by going after an easy belt while Taylor has chosen not to do the same.

If Taylor's next fight is against someone of Haussler's quality, then by all means you can make a case against his credibility. But we know that won't happen, since he doesn't have a **** belt and won't be forced to fight **** mandatories. Sure, Jermain defended against smaller guys when he held the belts, but they were all head and shoulders fairer matched than Kessler's next opponent.

[Kris Silver]

I disagree about Kessler bringing more to the table for Pavlik than Hopkins does. I think Hopkins offers him the bigger payday and just as much if not more notereity, especially domestically.

As much as it pains me to say it, your right with the reasons being why many certainly at home will rate it more and more money for them. It's just I don't see those reasons as quite so valuable, and with good reason. If it was a one off and Kessler had been responded to for a fight at some point at least, I could live with Pavlik beating a tough old legend for bigger money for domestic notoriety. But that's not the case. The same goes for my man Calzaghe, if he fought on beyond Roy Jones he'd need to face Pavlik or Dawson or someone.

I'm a fan of the sport that is boxing. I'm a realist, but I shan't subscribe to the excuse of more money and more domestic ratings and reputation gain, stardom too much, especially when your young and there's other more logical tougher fighters out there whom have called you out. A boxer loses some of my respect for that, and a lot of peoples. So you have to factor that in. Boxing is a global, sport, first and foremost.

Also the boxing media is somewhat at fault here too. Even on this thread someone had to post a link to where Kessler called out Pavlik because it's not widely known about, whereas everyone who follows boxing at all knows that Calzaghe has been talking trash about Pavlik every time he's in front of a microphone. Granted Calzaghe has been more vocal than Kessler, but Kessler's comments were barely covered by the media and then quickly forgotten about. But that all goes back to Kessler not being as big a name as Calzaghe, despite their recent fight, so he is not going to get the same kind of attention.

Very true. I posted the article link of Kessler calling out Pavlik, and I'm sure he's called out either Hops/Roy somewhere too. Even I'm a guilty of it because I can't fully remember. But yes, people rant on all day about Calzaghe ducking Pavlik, when Calzaghe showed a clear willingness to fight Pavlik, but he got his #1 choice for his LAST fight. The #1 SMW called out the #1 MW for the fall, and the #1 MW hasn't responded to indicate any real intention of taking it at some point. At the same time he's going above the SMW to fight someone else. That is a terrible state of affairs and far more of a duck.

I wouldn't mind if Calzaghe took as much crap, if people realised and spoke of this, but they don't. And that's without Abraham being factored in even. If Pavlik faced the two guys whom have called him out, Abraham and Kessler, I have no doubt he'd come out with 1 loss. Same can't be said for Calzaghe whom is about to retire.