How much credit does a fighter deserve for beating an old legend?

[Silencers]

I can see that. But the problem then lies in certain fans of aging legends distorting the truth about the condition of their fighter when they lose, or on the flipside, the haters of aging legends distorting the truth about how well their condition was at the time of the fight to discredit him.

It's a very complex issue. Like, for example, what constitutes an old legend? The number of years old he is at the time of the fight? Some fighters peak much later in their career (Glen Johnson), and others peak very early and then tank off. (Not saying Glen Johnson is a legend.)

I guess the only way to evaluate it is to watch it unfold a few times and really study it. Which never happens with this new breed of boxing fan who can't be bothered to watch old fights. (Idiots who say Robinson ****** because he had losses is a good example. Or people who overrate Marciano because of his "0".)

Fans will be fans and haters will be haters, it's nothing new for fans or haters to try to credit or discredit a fighter when there is no need to do so.

I think the best way to actually see if a fighter is old is by recent performances, not by age. I mean Morales was like 27 or 28 when he was old, others peak later or have better longevity.

[shadeyfizzle]

Great points, especially with Barrera and Morales against Pacquiao. Morales was completely blown out in the second and third Pac fights but came back to look good against Diaz (I had Erik winning that match). Barrera was blown away in the first Pac fight but went on to beat Morales again, and have a pretty competetive outing against Marquez.

The whole past prime thing should be taken with a grain of salt in most cases anyway. The popular excuse for Morales being the underdog in the Pacquiao rubbermatch was that he had lost 3 out of his last 4. But the Raheem fight was at 135, not 130 and his other loss was to Barrera which shouldnt have been a bad thing 4 anyone

[warp1432]

Truth be told Johnson should only have about 6, maybe 7 losses (I forgot the actual number). Most of those defeats came by way of robberies and hometown decisions, poor Johnson can't catch a break on the cards.

Hopkins did him in pretty good though. But to me, Johnson looks as good now as he did going into the fight with 'Nard. He's always a challenge. Hopkins being able to stop him is amazing, but Bernard's style was so much different back then. He was a wrecker.

I think the Johnson fight was his first fight where he really started to become his prime "Boxer-Puncher" style. I actually that style a lot more then brawler Bernard.

[Darkstar]

How much credit do you give a fighter for beating an old or past prime legend? How do you break it down? I'm really not sure myself of this myself. I've seen some people say "a win is a win" and others say that because the legend would've won had he been the same fight he was X number of years ago.

I mean, on the one hand you have a legend in the sport on your record as a win, which on paper looks great. (And history is written by the books.)

But on the other hand, they're past their prime, and it makes you wonder if they even would've stood a chance against them in their prime.

Does it count more if the person the legend loses to has a solid record and perhaps is undefeated, rather than some guy with a record of like 27-8?

Some examples.........

Berbick beating Ali
Wiley beating Chavez
Bojorquez beating Whitaker
Grant beating Hearns
Ayon beating Robinson
Woodland beating Pep

Some more recent examples..........

Ibragimov beating Holyfield
Taylor beating Hopkins
Tarver beating Jones
McBride beating Tyson
Hatton beating Tszyu
Lujan beating Castillo

I agree with everyone saying each situation is different. You cant even possibly compare Tarver beating Jones to Berbick beating Ali or McBride beating Tyson.

[shadeyfizzle]

Examples of fighters beating Legends that deserve little to no credit.

Holmes over Ali
Juan Diaz over Aceleino Freitas
Alfonso Gomez over Arturo Gatti
Delahoya over Chavez

Examples of fights that deserve every bit of credit

Pacquiao over Barrera/Morales
Holyfield over Foreman/Tyson
Basilio over Robinson

[boxer1234]

[edit]oops wrong thread. lol

[warp1432]

Examples of fighters beating Legends that deserve little to no credit.

Holmes over Ali
Juan Diaz over Aceleino Freitas
Alfonso Gomez over Arturo Gatti
Delahoya over Chavez

Examples of fights that deserve every bit of credit

Pacquiao over Barrera 2/Morales
Holyfield over Foreman/Tyson
Basilio over Robinson

I disagree with the following in bold and somewhat with the underlined. I give Holmes credit for making Ali's corner stop it. He pretty much destroyed him.

I don't know why you don't count Diaz's win over Freitas, especially when Freitas last win was Raheem...who beat Morales. So by this logic, Pacquiao deserves no credit for beating Morales. Freitas might have been inactive, but Diaz still handed him a beating and it was impressive.

I think De La Hoya's win over Chavez was impressive because he really cut Chavez up with his jab. Chavez was coming off wins over Medrick Taylor, Randall, and Kamau. He also went on to beat Joey Gamache right after he lost to De La Hoya. Drawed with Miguel Angel Gonzalez and then destroyed by De La Hoya the second time.

Pacquiao deserves little credit for the second barrera win since Barrera had just lost to Marquez pretty damn clearly and it was obvious Barrera only showed up for a payday. That fight ******.

[MANGLER]

Some old guys can still fight, some can't. It ain't always a credible win.