Respecting Hopkins as a champion and a fighter

[FistFest]

I still have this in my head after the DLH - BHOP fight. I like Nard. I'm a fan. I like him for his tactical know-how and mind games. I picked him to win right from the start of the hype of his fight with DLH. After the bout, now I'm telling myself... I respect him as a fighter but how about as a complete champion?

In Oscar, Julio Cesar Chavez, Duran, Leonard, and other great champions, we saw guys who cleansed their division and went up to other weight classes to look for more opponents. They went out of their way to lock horns with other fighters. Along the way, as they went up and beyond their natural weight, they gained a sort of handicap for the effectiveness of their skill. Geez, Duran started at 119 pounds and we remember him finally stopping in the middles where there were guys with a lot of natural power to annihilate him. These fighters brushed regularly with an ever increasing possibility of a loss due to the weight they put on just to vie for other belts or to elevate their reputation. Oscar went through this that's why his honor is not tarnished despite his loss by KO.

Hopkins on the other hand, stayed in his division and waited for challengers. He camped there and built a legacy with a solid foundation. But why did he not put an added level of challenge to the game he plays by going up in weight? Was he ever at risk because of this? I really want to give him props right now but I'm feeling sooo incomplete. Boxing is the only solo player sport where there are a lot of conditions for you to fulfill in order to be recognized as a complete champion for all time. A champ needs prove his armor and sword not just in one place alone but also in other levels as well.

Hopkins is a great fighter. I also want to say that he's a great champion. But when I remember him a few years after he retires, will I just want to remember him solely as a camping middle weight?

Where does being a champion start and how do you cement a legacy properly? And when does a reputation collapse and solidify. I think we need to define it again.

Thanks for reading this post. FistFest here.

[m00ks]

I don't think anyone can deny B-Hop of his legacy. Where as you would define a complete champion as someone who not only conquers his division but also posessing the ability to take the fight to next level, or the next weight class for that matter, a better definition of a complete champion can be summed up in one word: consistancy.

In boxing, someone faster, stronger or more skillfull always comes along and have your number. When you are the champ, you are the target, the hunted if you will. In 19 straight defences, B-Hop is yet to be dethroned. Among them were more than worthy opponents. B-Hop put a stop to Tito's rampage and myth. Nard's skill and his will is what defeated Trinidad more than his size and his strength. Against DLH, he took and siezed the fight, refusing that his faith be decided by no one other than himself. You don't need to step in other realms to be a great champ. You just had to stay champ, disposing of any warrior that is put in front of you or anyone who challenges your supremacy.

A few years from now, should he retire with his 20 defences, I would not remember Bernard Hopkins as a camping middleweight. I would remember him as the UNDISPUTED middleweight champion of the world. (unless he looses his 20th lol)

[SonnyG8R]

Hopkins should be remembered as a great middleweight champ but that is all. He is not in the same class as Duran, Leonard etc. He will never be mentioned as an alltime p4p great.

[Moon]

FISTFEST - Oscar "cleaned up his division"? Which division was that. He didn't unify at any weight.

If you chose to remember Hopkins as a guy who "camped", well that's your business.

Just think of it this way ..... If you're willing to give Oscar his props, remember also the man that dominated him on Saturday.

FistFest .... stop being an Oscar apologist and look at Bernard for who he is. In 20 years, I'll still remember who popped Oscar's ribs. And still remember that Oscar showed the world that he didn't know his own limitations, even after being thumped by a 2nd rate Middle called Sturm.

On the other hand, in 20 years, there'll be Hopkins, Undisputed Champ.

By the way. Do you figure there's no beauty in getting a record number of defences at Middle, or any weight. You gotta' stay there a while to do that.

[borikua]

This is what I think of Nard; Good record, beat DLH and Tito, but lackluster in the ring.

[FistFest]

I don't think anyone can deny B-Hop of his legacy. Where as you would define a complete champion as someone who not only conquers his division but also posessing the ability to take the fight to next level, or the next weight class for that matter, a better definition of a complete champion can be summed up in one word: consistancy.

In boxing, someone faster, stronger or more skillfull always comes along and have your number. When you are the champ, you are the target, the hunted if you will. In 19 straight defences, B-Hop is yet to be dethroned. Among them were more than worthy opponents. B-Hop put a stop to Tito's rampage and myth. Nard's skill and his will is what defeated Trinidad more than his size and his strength. Against DLH, he took and siezed the fight, refusing that his faith be decided by no one other than himself. You don't need to step in other realms to be a great champ. You just had to stay champ, disposing of any warrior that is put in front of you or anyone who challenges your supremacy.

A few years from now, should he retire with his 20 defences, I would not remember Bernard Hopkins as a camping middleweight. I would remember him as the UNDISPUTED middleweight champion of the world. (unless he looses his 20th lol)

Mooks! Nice to bump into ya! I'm back. Anyway, point taken and I feel the same way you do about the word consistency in a champion. Now, I was trying to point out the other things a champion should do to get the utmost respect in different angles of the legacy he made.

[Sir_Jose]

This is the dumbest godamn argument people make when talking about Hopkins.

So the **** what he didn't move up NIETHER DID HAGLER!

The guy has dominated his division for 10 freaking years and has made 19 defenses and unified all 3 major belts and WBO along the way. I keep hearing people who dont know about the sport ***** that he didn't move. Someone want to tell me who was up at 168 for him to fight?

If you cant respect someone who has lasted this long in such a rough and unforgiving sport then you just need to quit watching boxing right now.

The two top guys at 168 during Hopkins run were Joe Calzaghe and Sven Ottke BOTH were flat out ******* who would never dare leave the comforts of Europe to take on a real fighter. Would beating either of these two guys now make him great?...NO.

Duran didn't move up cause he wanted better challenges he moved up because he was a fat ass who hated to train when he got older.

[FistFest]

FISTFEST - Oscar "cleaned up his division"? Which division was that. He didn't unify at any weight.

Just think of it this way ..... If you're willing to give Oscar his props, remember also the man that dominated him on Saturday.

FistFest .... stop being an Oscar apologist and look at Bernard for who he is. In 20 years, I'll still remember who popped Oscar's ribs. And still remember that Oscar showed the world that he didn't know his own limitations, even after being thumped by a 2nd rate Middle called Sturm.

On the other hand, in 20 years, there'll be Hopkins, Undisputed Champ.

By the way. Do you figure there's no beauty in getting a record number of defences at Middle, or any weight. You gotta' stay there a while to do that.

First off... I'm a Hopkins fan.

Never did I say in this forum that I ignore Hopkins number of defences, never did I mean that Oscar unified belts in a division, he fought the top contenders in those divisions never did I belittle BHop's accomplishments. I merely wanted to say that he could've been MORE respectable if he went out of his way to seek fighters from weight classes above him. His skill could've been tested at another level.

[psychopath]

BH deserves respect . . . .

Nobody can please everybody . . . BH did what he wants to do and what he needs to do . . . he has already cemented his place in the hall of boxing greats . . . Ali will always be Ali . . . Leonard will always be Leonard . . . as to who is the greatest? That cannot be answered. There are things that other fighters have accomplished that BH never did but there are also things that BH accomplished that other fighters never did accomplished.

Defending the DIVISION title 19 times in the span of 10 years is already a milestone, so let's give credit to whom that credit is due.

[Moon]

First off... I'm a Hopkins fan.

Never did I say in this forum that I ignore Hopkins number of defences, never did I mean that Oscar unified belts in a division, he fought the top contenders in those divisions never did I belittle BHop's accomplishments. I merely wanted to say that he could've been MORE respectable if he went out of his way to seek fighters from weight classes above him. His skill could've been tested at another level.

FistFest .... but, you did say "A champ needs prove his armor and sword not just in one place alone but also in other levels as well". If you think that Hopkins needs to move-up to "prove" something, then you are definitely belittling his accomplishments. Very subtly, but definitely.

I have disagreed with you. Hopkins doesn't have to "prove" anything to anybody. He's a Champion, without moving-up.