Tweet
That would also mean that a challenger like Tim Bradley was can't be considered a true champion because he didn't beat a true champion.
That's just bull****.
That's just bull****.
-
-
Well if you go all the way back to the first world champ, which by history books I think is considered to be John L. Sullivan after he beat the champs in france and uk. There was a clear consensus rating system; One belt. He then got beat by Jim Corbett under diff rules (gloves) and the rest is history.
During those times many white fighters refused to fight black fighters because they felt that a black man was not worthy of fighting for the championship. As much as these black fighters were worthy contenders i.e. Peter Jackson, they can never be considered champions because they never beat the man. Jack Johnson had to chase the current champions for years before he got his chance. I'm sure you know who Jack Johnson is but you probably don't know who Peter Jackson is, many don't because he never won the championship. We will never know if he could have beaten Sullivan because they never fought.
If at that time African Americans decided to start another sanctioning body and Peter Jackson became champ of that body, could we have considered him Champ? I say no, you have to beat the man. This is the situation we're in right now with all these sanctioning bodies... *I don't like this belt so imma make another one*... so we need to follow lineages. All the ATGs in your avatar were lineal champions. When they were champs in thier respective division, there was no doubt who was the champ. All their most celebrated battles were for the lineal championships too.Comment
-
Exactly, the IBF title Margo has right now is not worth a DAMN
That the belt that Judah lost from baldy but they gave it back to judah, because baldy didn't pay sanctioning fees. Mayweather won it from Judah vacated it and Cintron picked it up. How could you consider someone a world champ that holds a belt like that...Comment
-
I think if you win a belt then you are a champ, but it's much better to beat the champion for it. If you have a belt and defend it, then you're champ.Comment
-
The example you give is right, Margo is NOT a champion.
But, most fighters who win vacant belts fight another top ranked contender for the belt.
When Lennox Lewis retired as "the man", does that mean EVERY heavyweight champion after him is not a true champion?
I agree on some points, but your most basic logic is very flawed.Comment
-
So was Judah still a TRUE champion when he fought Mayweather, just because Baldomir couldn't afford the fees for the belt? And just because Mayweather wouldn't fight Cintron, Kermit automatically gets penalized?
If you don't consider someone a TRUE champion for winning a vacant belt (Floyd Patterson), what about someone that wins this belt from that guy (Sonny Liston,) or the guy that wins this belt from him (Ali.) So Ali wasn't a TRUE champion? Interesting.Last edited by Jim Jeffries; 05-28-2008, 12:37 PM.Comment
-
If you read some of my earlier points you would see that I believe in the case where the lineal championship is vacant then the INDEPENDENTLY RANKED no 1., no.2, or even the no.1 vs. no.3 fights the winner could be considered the lineal champ (similiar to the ring policy)
MAYWEATHER WAS NOT WW CHAMP becuz he beat judah he became WW champ when he beat Baldomir. JUDAH Lost his championship to Baldomir.Comment
-
When those fighters win vacant belts from fighting another Independently top ranked contender there's no problem with that. i.e. the middle weight tournament that made b-hop the lineal middleweight champ of the world.
Right now there is no true champ at hw, the closest to that is WLAD.Comment
Comment