I'm sorry, but Calzaghe defeated Hopkins comfortably

[Kris Silver]

I see where you're coming from, but genuinely I think that scoring the fight for Hopkins is a result of wishful thinking and not wanting to see a favourite beat. To do so you have to ignore the fact that Calzaghe was literally swarming into Bernard all night, throwing and landing a massively larger amount of punches, even if they didn't always look good. Joe was itching to get it on with Hopkins and was never even close to being hurt, tired or troubled, if you watch it again you can see just how comfortable he was, and how frustrated he was at constantly being clinched. I honestly recommend a rewatch to you, because though I thought it was close at first, I now don't see how it could be scored for Hopkins in a month of sundays. Joe had too much for him, nobody ever pressurised Bernard like that before and he couldn't live with it.

I don't agree that prime Hopkins beats Joe, he wasn't as strong or as tactically astute, and I'm sure Joe would welcome the opportunity to fight a more aggressive Bernard. More posts than this have summed all this up better than I have here though.

Good call on Toney though, he is indeed a very hard boxer to work out. That "he could be the best if he tried" thing is absolutely spot on, that is how he seems to be perceived.

Too true pretty much. Hypothetically, if a fighter chose to just be majorly defensive, determine to spoil, not let flurries of punches get through, clinching, running, it'll work depending on how effective he is.

Now, Hops is great in all of those area's, and basically did choose to fight, a fight like that. So people are surprised Joe didn't get to land his usual flurries, or any majorly hard shots? abadge is right, Joe was chasing Nard and the fight ALL night, eager to trade, never really hurt, never relenting. He coulda been more effective, but it's testament to Hops supreme defence, tactics, countering, spoiling, clinching tactics that made it hard to do so. Takes 2 fighters fighting, to make a fight.

I'm gona try watch the fight again soon, and the clinching is such a key point, because if Cortez was even 20% as intolerant of the clinching on Hops, as he was with Hatton, Hops woulda been in trouble. He was aloud to get to a point where he knew if a flurry or power punch was coming, he could clinch, not get those punches, and carry on running. Take that away the fights immediately more open, exactly what Hops didn't want, and what Joe would and does.

[BKM-]

You can say you think prime Nard wins, because it's a hypothetical. What you can't honestly say is Nard had a better career than Joe. I think it's pretty wide in Joe's favor. More defenses, fought better guys his own size, and undefeated. Hopkins lost five fights and all his big wins except one were against smaller guys.

The only thing in Nard's favor is he's American, black, and fought longer on HBO.

With Hopkins it's not so much that he beat a great fighter that may have been smaller, it's the manner in which he beat them. I could see where you were coming from if he always had "average wins" as i'd like to call them, but B-hop has always been written off, but he rose to the occasion in a very impressive manner by either dominating them or knocking them out. That's what defines Hopkins' career imo, and that's what makes him an ATG in his category. With Calzaghe it's his unbeaten record, also going against all odds and like you said, beating good-great (unbeaten) fighters his size.

Hopkins career has pretty much been summed up for us now. Calzaghe still has unfinished business, so i rather not get into the whole who has the better career thing.

I see where you're coming from, but genuinely I think that scoring the fight for Hopkins is a result of wishful thinking and not wanting to see a favourite beat. To do so you have to ignore the fact that Calzaghe was literally swarming into Bernard all night, throwing and landing a massively larger amount of punches, even if they didn't always look good. Joe was itching to get it on with Hopkins and was never even close to being hurt, tired or troubled, if you watch it again you can see just how comfortable he was, and how frustrated he was at constantly being clinched. I honestly recommend a rewatch to you, because though I thought it was close at first, I now don't see how it could be scored for Hopkins in a month of sundays. Joe had too much for him, nobody ever pressurised Bernard like that before and he couldn't live with it.

I don't agree that prime Hopkins beats Joe, he wasn't as strong or as tactically astute, and I'm sure Joe would welcome the opportunity to fight a more aggressive Bernard. More posts than this have summed all this up better than I have here though.

Good call on Toney though, he is indeed a very hard boxer to work out. That "he could be the best if he tried" thing is absolutely spot on, that is how he seems to be perceived.

I can't ignore that fact. Calzaghe swarming into Hopkins all night long has shown me some crucial moments in which Hopkins outshined him. At times Calzaghe looked 'amateurish' and INEFFECTIVE in those attacks, and he was hurt a couple of times because of this style he fought in. That partly brings back the point that Hopkins showed the better boxing skills, and landed the most effective punches of the night.

But Calzaghe was more active, did land more and brought Hopkins out of his comfort zone, furthermore he showed the hunger/will to beat the champion(Even though I personally think he came up short at the end). So I see why you score it for Calzaghe and respect your opinion.

And that Calzaghe pressured Hopkins the most shows the guy's age. The way Bernard Hopkins timed guys, and slowed down the pace etc, takes a lot of engergy and overall athletic ability. If Hopkins was in his prime he wouldn't have to worry worry about the lack thereof. IMO.

[Dynamite Kid]

Calzaghe did not deserve to win the fight because he was not the effective aggressor he landed nothing significant in the whole fight except for one straight left hand ,Hopkins tattooed him with ring hands & put him on the deck ,marching foward & showing willing is why Calzaghe won the fight & Hopkins lack of activity due to age

but IMO i dont know how some can score a fight for anyone when they aint landing nothing they are just coming foward & trying to connect with shots & failing whilst getting hit with clean right hand counters in the process


this fight should have been scored a draw IMO

[RichCCFC]

u mean my post is accurate ,thanks

u are a bitter Welsh **** u been hating on David Haye since he whipped Enzo

Haye aint ****.

Bitter English ****.

[Dynamite Kid]

Haye aint ****.

Bitter English ****.

Haye aint ****


Haye Knocked that welsh chump out inside 3 rounds ,battle of Britain


Cardiff city aint ****

[Dynamite Kid]

here is one of Calzaghe best Combinations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az8r1Xmwjmo

[Technical_Skill]

but IMO i dont know how some can score a fight for anyone when they aint landing nothing they are just coming foward & trying to connect with shots & failing whilst getting hit with clean right hand counters in the process

Totally correct. This is the thing, and no one can deny this, Calzaghe wasnt landing punches, and hopkins was landing the harder cleaner punches throughout the fight. Thats what decides fights, otherwise we might as well become professional fighters too, we might even win a world title or two, it doesnt matter if we are missing punches right? Its how many you throw that counts.

[abadger]

Totally correct. This is the thing, and no one can deny this, Calzaghe wasnt landing punches, and hopkins was landing the harder cleaner punches throughout the fight. Thats what decides fights, otherwise we might as well become professional fighters too, we might even win a world title or two, it doesnt matter if we are missing punches right? Its how many you throw that counts.

I'm sorry, but this position is ludicrous. If Joe had actually landed nothing then you would be right, but he landed plenty. Not all of them looked effective, but lots of them were. He threw so many more punches than Hopkins that he both landed more effective ones and missed more too.

When Hopkins did throw his punches looked better, and he probably had a better percentage of effective shots, whatever compubox says, but no way on this earth did he land more.

You can't just act as though calzaghe didn't hit Bernard at all.

[Dynamite Kid]

Totally correct. This is the thing, and no one can deny this, Calzaghe wasnt landing punches, and hopkins was landing the harder cleaner punches throughout the fight. Thats what decides fights, otherwise we might as well become professional fighters too, we might even win a world title or two, it doesnt matter if we are missing punches right? Its how many you throw that counts.

Ha Ha the Calzaghe fans are so objective they think this evidence is sufficient to claim he would have beaten a prime Hopkins ,Knocked a prime Jones JR out ,and dominated a prime James Toney to win by decision

[Dynamite Kid]

I'm sorry, but this position is ludicrous. If Joe had actually landed nothing then you would be right, but he landed plenty. Not all of them looked effective, but lots of them were. He threw so many more punches than Hopkins that he both landed more effective ones and missed more too.

When Hopkins did throw his punches looked better, and he probably had a better percentage of effective shots, whatever compubox says, but no way on this earth did he land more.

You can't just act as though calzaghe didn't hit Bernard at all.

i knew one of the Zag nuthuggers was come on here and claim if u actually watch the fight closely Calzaghe landed more Power connects than Tito did against Mayorga LOL


he landed more effective than when Hopkins put Joe on his arse Lmao ,do me a favour where is the logic