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Ike wasn't a volume puncher fighter like Marciano and Frazier so you're right about that. Because Marciano and Frazier are not volume punchers. When i think of a volume puncher, i think more of the lines of Holyfield, Tyson, Ibeabuchi, Calzaghe, a Hatton ect. Fighters that let their hands go in volume and in fast combinations non stop. Frazier and Marciano are fighters that look to get inside and find the right spot to work at. When Frazier bobs and weaves, he doesn't punch often. He punches one at a time. Marciano is definitely not a volume puncher. He is all inside game and looks to get in your chest. Thats when he starts throwing. Ike lets his hands go a lot and a perfect example is in that video that you showed as well as the Tua fight.
The first round of the Byrd fight was dull, and in the second round Ike starts to let his hands go, show head movement and land hard punches on Byrd and frusrtates him.
Also, look at the punch stats. Ike out landed Byrd while landing the more effective/telling blows. The pitter pat shots that Byrd was flicking wasn't being recorded.
Honestly, i don't see how people use the Byrd fight as evidence for Ike's vulnerablity to the jab, when Ike showed good head movement, ability to slip punches and ability to block and counter.
You can make a case that Sanders scored a knock down when he rocked Vitali with the counter punch. Vitali staggered backward and he seemed to be shook up. Sanders had more early knockouts because he fought the lesser opponents. You can tell that Ike was pushed hard from even the start of his career. Byrd has 26 wins to Ike's 19 at the time that they met. Tua had 27 wins to Ike's 16 at the time that they fought. He clearly fought the better line of fighters and looked more impressive while doing it. He was also still in the learing process and devoloping as a fighter. Which is really scary when you think of the fighter that he could have became. Look at every great and you can take out something that they did wrong when they was still learning. Ike had less than 20 fights at the time he fought both Tua and Byd.
Look at Ali/ Doug Jones. Jones was out boxing Ali at times in the fight and the decision was some what contrversial by many. Judging by that fight, boxers like Liston, Bonevena ect should have all beaten Ali because of that horrible performance.
Exactly, so does that make your point about Ike being hurt against Tua a moot one? Because Tua is a very hard puncher with late knockout power and i still have yet to see Ike noticably hurt at any point during the fight.
Ike didn't fade in neither of those fights. Trust me, i rewatched both of them over a dozen times and don't really know where you are getting this from. Sources, ESPN and HBO both covered the Ibeabuchi/Tuafight and neither stated anything about Ike fading. The bout was highly competitve in the early stages with Tua winning a few of the early to mid rounds, then Ike came on strong late and pulled it out at the end.
The Byrd bout really supports my case, as he was letting his hands go in volume right when the knockout occured. He was getting closer and closer and was closing the gap, stepping up the pressure and connecting with hard punches. All comentators talk about his incredible stamina. Hes a human being yes, although he is the first human being that i have ever seen fight at such a blistering past and not show signs of fatigue.
Well there you go, Byrd made Ike look like a clown for the FIRST round only when he was still getting adjusted. Ike started to show head movement and land counter punches in the second round which seemed like an even round. Byrd was only head on one of the cards at the time of the stoppage and that was slightly. The two other judges (including the expeienced Harold Ledarman) had Ibeabuchi winning the fight by a good margin. Harder, effective/telling blows are more effective than pitter pat shots, which was all that Byrd was landing. For the next few rounds, Ike started to have success in the middle of the ring and birngs educated pressure. Working behind the jab and stying in close quarters.
Lewis being past his prime and out of shape may have a lot to do with it. Honestly, i can't see Vitali out jabbing a peak Lewis. Peak Lennox had incredible stamina and stuck to his jab for the enitre fight. The Lewis that fought Vitali not only jabbedd in spurts but fought in spurts as well. He was even coming back on Vitali at the time the stoppage occured and which is why the cut happen, then fight was stopped.
Also, i am really not feeling the comparison to Tua to Vitali. Tua is a short fighter and power puncher, Klitscko is a rangy boxer with good technical skills. Ike would find a home for power shots in Klitschko's long body. Lewis was able to get body punches off while Klitschko tied him up on the inside. Ike would make Vitali fight.
I would give Vitali a better shot at beating Tyson.
The first round of the Byrd fight was dull, and in the second round Ike starts to let his hands go, show head movement and land hard punches on Byrd and frusrtates him.
Also, look at the punch stats. Ike out landed Byrd while landing the more effective/telling blows. The pitter pat shots that Byrd was flicking wasn't being recorded.
Again, I don't see how people use the Sanders fight as evidence of Vitali's vunerability against pressure fighters; it essentially proves the exact opposite.
Even at 240+ Sanders had more noteworthy 1-3 round early knockouts than Ike. Regardless of weight it was claer the guy was always a dangerous early round killer that quickly faded and gassed. Even when he was fresh in the early rounds, Sanders couldn't touch Vitali when he was on his backfoot. Just once he caught Vitali with a good counter while he was coming in and he not only took it well but responded well by not letting Sanders touch him again when he tried to press.
Look at Ali/ Doug Jones. Jones was out boxing Ali at times in the fight and the decision was some what contrversial by many. Judging by that fight, boxers like Liston, Bonevena ect should have all beaten Ali because of that horrible performance.
Everbody gets caught and hurt; it is how they react that is important and I don't see any evidence that Vitali would fold under power shots
Again Ike faded against Tua and gave up most of the late rounds, a fact you continue to ignore when I bring it up with evidence. Struggling to stay inshape and active, he also fatigued against Byrd before catching him with a killer punch on the ropes. He still kept up an impressive workrrate but the guy was human, he got tried, and was even hurt and holding on at the end of 11th against Tua(he never held before I don't think). He was a human being regardless of the almost mythical status his brief career has took on.
The Byrd bout really supports my case, as he was letting his hands go in volume right when the knockout occured. He was getting closer and closer and was closing the gap, stepping up the pressure and connecting with hard punches. All comentators talk about his incredible stamina. Hes a human being yes, although he is the first human being that i have ever seen fight at such a blistering past and not show signs of fatigue.
As far as Ike outboxing Byrd in the center of the ring...Just NO! Regardless of what Lederman had, Byrd made Ike look like a clown for the first two rounds. Problem is that in round 3, Ike just started pushing through Byrd's punches and muscling him into the ropes. The undersized Byrd just didn't have the power to hold him, push him off, or back him up with his punches. Byrd still fought well off the ropes, he just got caught with a killer shot. Ike never outboxed Byrd or outjabbed him in the traditional sense of the word. Ike's very words before the fight was that he needed to be the Foreman to his Moorer.
I don't see Ike's jab having much effect on Vitali, who out jabbed the longer armed Lewis with no trouble. As said, Ike was getting outjabbed by Tua in the middle rounds and beyond for ****'s sake. I see Ike not having an answer to Vitali's jab and right hand leads, getting held on the inside, and losing a wide decision. Remeber how the one handed Tua scored with the right hand lead at will on Ike, now picture Vitali doing the same. Ouch.
Also, i am really not feeling the comparison to Tua to Vitali. Tua is a short fighter and power puncher, Klitscko is a rangy boxer with good technical skills. Ike would find a home for power shots in Klitschko's long body. Lewis was able to get body punches off while Klitschko tied him up on the inside. Ike would make Vitali fight.
I would give Vitali a better shot at beating Tyson.
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