**** Calzaghe Haters

[βetamax]

I don't think Hopkins is better now either. I do think the Hopkins we see now has a style more suited to beating Joe than the Hopkins of old though, what made Hopkins hard to hit was not any incredible defense, but basically just a lot of smothering and clinching, which Hopkins did less of in the past. Thats why I think Joe beats him anytime.

Fair enough but I still disagree. The clinching, etc. is a secondary choice of action due to loss in physical abilities. The fight was determined by Joe's workrate and Hopkins lack of. A result of age. I feel Hopkins was able to still defend himself just fine without resorting to clinching when he was able to and in most cases get the better of exchanges. Therefore the only thing I would see different if the fight took place years ago would be less clinching and more exchanges which would likely have suited Hopkins even more.

[abadger]

Fair enough but I still disagree. The clinching, etc. is a secondary choice of action due to loss in physical abilities. The fight was determined by Joe's workrate and Hopkins lack of. A result of age. I feel Hopkins was able to still defend himself just fine without resorting to clinching when he was able to and in most cases get the better of exchanges. Therefore the only thing I would see different if the fight took place years ago would be less clinching and more exchanges which would likely have suited Hopkins even more.

Totally understand what you're saying, but for me, in a more active fight, Calzaghe wins even more easily. Thats what he does.

[Dynamite Kid]

Americans are worse than the rest of the world when it comes to overestimating their own fighters, although I accept that this can often include boxers who box out of America too, and include Mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc.

It's not so much national pride that you have, more a belief that the entire world of boxing is basically the US and an at times amazing disregard for other fighters. Virtually every single elite fighter you have, once they pass a certain point in their careers is acclaimed as a legend, no matter how often they actually lose. Look at Hopkins, Jones, Winky, Trinidad, Toney, even Tarver! At times US fans act like these guys never lost a fight in their life,
continually saying, your guy will never beat my amazing legendary legend (even though he's lost his last two fights!)

You certainly don't extend this incredible willingness to forgive defeats to non-US and particularly European fighters. Every loss by a European proves beyond all reasonable doubt that he is a bum!

So no, its not national pride exactly, more a huge and overweaning national sense of entitlement and presumed superiority, combined with an almost wilful disregard for the achievements of boxers from any other nation.

Not trying to stir anything up, just saying!

this is the best post ive read for a while and i so true ,u should make a thread with this as the opening post

i still dont think Cazlaghe would beat Hopkins of 2001 but

Karma

[Bobby Shaw]

Joe is a legend in Wales yes ,maybe the UK and thats it.Not on the world scale ,he's just a nobody.

Legends dont go around getting knocked down by 43 yrold men

[rusticraver]

If Calzaghe was a yank they would be compring him to SRL

FACT

[Bobby Shaw]

Calzaghe would have liked to fight bigger names but Hopkins agreed to a fight then doubled his demands overnight and Roy Jones thought it was a risk not worth taking.

Roy didnt see the need of going to Wales for that.It was more to do with location than the risk of losing.

[Vladimir303]

Americans are worse than the rest of the world when it comes to overestimating their own fighters, although I accept that this can often include boxers who box out of America too, and include Mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc.

It's not so much national pride that you have, more a belief that the entire world of boxing is basically the US and an at times amazing disregard for other fighters. Virtually every single elite fighter you have, once they pass a certain point in their careers is acclaimed as a legend, no matter how often they actually lose. Look at Hopkins, Jones, Winky, Trinidad, Toney, even Tarver! At times US fans act like these guys never lost a fight in their life,
continually saying, your guy will never beat my amazing legendary legend (even though he's lost his last two fights!)

You certainly don't extend this incredible willingness to forgive defeats to non-US and particularly European fighters. Every loss by a European proves beyond all reasonable doubt that he is a bum!

So no, its not national pride exactly, more a huge and overweaning national sense of entitlement and presumed superiority, combined with an almost wilful disregard for the achievements of boxers from any other nation.

Not trying to stir anything up, just saying!

Americans have every right to feel superior. We have the best boxers in history of boxing. The Ali's, the Leonard's, the Joe Louis's, The Robinson's.

A top 20 ATG in Roy Jones.....and one of the most gifted fighters ever. The phenomenon of Mike Tyson. The Holyfield etc,etc, etc,. You get the point.

This is why America is the center point to becoming great. If you're looking to become great then you have to come to America to fight the greate fighters and prove yourself.

A guy like Lennox Lewis did that and he has secured a spot in the history books. Guys like Darius Michaelchewzki (if that's how you spell it), Sven Ottke, Henry Maske are lucky if they land in some Eurpean Hall of fame because they haven't done anything to come even close to the fighters I mentioned above.

[Dynamite Kid]

If Calzaghe was a yank they would be compring him to SRL

FACT

Jeez

[abadger]

this is the best post ive read for a while and i so true ,u should make a thread with this as the opening post

i still dont think Cazlaghe would beat Hopkins of 2001 but

Karma

Done! Thanks for the K

[Bobby Shaw]

Americans are worse than the rest of the world when it comes to overestimating their own fighters, although I accept that this can often include boxers who box out of America too, and include Mexicans, Puerto Ricans etc.

It's not so much national pride that you have, more a belief that the entire world of boxing is basically the US and an at times amazing disregard for other fighters. Virtually every single elite fighter you have, once they pass a certain point in their careers is acclaimed as a legend, no matter how often they actually lose. Look at Hopkins, Jones, Winky, Trinidad, Toney, even Tarver! At times US fans act like these guys never lost a fight in their life,
continually saying, your guy will never beat my amazing legendary legend (even though he's lost his last two fights!)

You certainly don't extend this incredible willingness to forgive defeats to non-US and particularly European fighters. Every loss by a European proves beyond all reasonable doubt that he is a bum!

So no, its not national pride exactly, more a huge and overweaning national sense of entitlement and presumed superiority, combined with an almost wilful disregard for the achievements of boxers from any other nation.

Not trying to stir anything up, just saying!

There are fighters who are not Americans who are well regarded in the USA.Azumah Nelson is considered a legend,Pacquio and many Mexicans (which you mentioned).The thing with Americans is if a fighter is not performing well then the fighter wont get a payday whereas in England Ricky Hatton could go and get himself a tree to climb in a stadium instead of fighting Witter and people will still buy it on PPV

In England some fighters are supported just for nationalistic reasons.