What if: Roy Jones Jr. vs. Joe Calzaghe Prime for Prime

[steptwome]

Prime Jones at 168 would have man handled Calzaghe

[IMDAZED]

First, I'm quite certain I haven't seen as many Roy fights as you have, but I'm not just ignorantly criticising him from the persepective of a Calzaghe fan, nor am I only talking about his later career. I've watched several of Roy's biggest fights, and some that have been recommended to me as standout performances, I'm not a Roy 'expert' but I like to think I am able to judge a fighters potential strengths and weaknesses based on the evidence of my eyes. I've seen him face (off the top of my head) Hopkins, Toney, Pazienza, Tate, Byrd, Thornton, Sosa, Griffin x 2, Reggie Johnson, Glen Johnson, Tarver x 2 and Woods. Quite probably I haven't seen all of Roy's best performances, but I don't think that makes my opinion invalid, I think I've seen enough.

Great. Care to tell me - during Jones' prime - which fighter proved he couldn't handle pressure, as YOU said?

I should say that I'm not talking about Roy 'looking bad', I'm talking about moments in fights, even those that he won, even those that he looked great in, where a potential weakness in his game was apparent. I fully admit that Roy was so incredible that success against him is relative, like against Mayweather, and is not measured by nearly beating him, but in fact by giving him any trouble at all.

Please point out these moments in his prime where he proved vulnerable against a pressure fighter.

For me I'd say a good example of what I'm talking about, at SMW is the Pazienza fight. For some people this is Roy's biggest ever display of talent. Sure, in the end Roy blew him away, but in the opening rounds Pazienza had Roy on the ropes several times, looking to me like he didn't know how to get out. He took Pazienza's punishment well enough, and went on to win, but if you look past that, then you can see that being under pressure is not Roy's favourite place. I think you see the same thing at places in the Hopkins fight, amongst others, to be honest I'd say he's been like that his whole career and is actually at his best in these situations right now.

You've got to be kidding...you're pointing to the Pazienza fight as proof he struggled against pressure fighters in his time? I'm not sure what to tell you except...wow. Well actually, you're right. Pazienza did have success...for all of 15 seconds (if you define success as throwing multiple punches, most of which don't land and then getting countered till your face looks like it went through a meat grinder).

I'd also add that in the Hopkins fight, Jones had as much success against the ropes as Hopkins did. Man...you really lost me.

So I reiterate, I'm not slamming Roy, I'm not saying he's a bad fighter, he was incredible, and I favour him to beat Calzaghe. You make a good point when you ask "What fighter isn't vulnerable?", they all are to a degree, and no fighter is immune from having moments in a fight when they are on the receiving end. I'm just saying that to me Roy looked to have a definite weakness in this area, and I think its pretty clearly observable. You may disagree, maybe its just that Roy was so incredible in other departments that any slight flaw is magnified, it could be true. However I don't believe it is out of place to note that Roy was described as lacking fundamentals throughout his career, and that this referred to his lack of technical ability on the inside, his habit of jumping into punches and his reliance on his relexes to get him out of trouble. In fact I'm sure that most agree that this lack of fundamentals caught up eith him in the end, proving that in fact, they were real vulnerabilities all along. I admire the jabbing Roy because that was the style that best overcame his vulnerabilities and made him close to being an unbeatable boxer.

I'm lost. I asked a simple question...obviously I touched a nerve.

At the end of the day all I'm saying is this: Roy Jones did have clear and observable flaws in his game throughout his career which his natural ability was able to compensate for. Against a top class boxer the potential is there for his opponent to exploit those flaws, however unlikely that might be. I think that is a reasonable argument, and surely in countering, you are not arguing that Roy was flawless?

LOLOL. What I said was that Jones ate pressure fighters up in his prime. That counterpunchers such as Montell Griffin and Eric Harding are what gave him problems. Since you couldn't rebut that, you go into this long schpiel about Jones not being flawless, how you aren't dissing him, yada yada. Stick to the subject. Thanks.

[abadger]

Great. Care to tell me - during Jones' prime - which fighter proved he couldn't handle pressure, as YOU said?



Please point out these moments in his prime where he proved vulnerable against a pressure fighter.


You've got to be kidding...you're pointing to the Pazienza fight as proof he struggled against pressure fighters in his time? I'm not sure what to tell you except...wow. Well actually, you're right. Pazienza did have success...for all of 15 seconds (if you define success as throwing multiple punches, most of which don't land and then getting countered till your face looks like it went through a meat grinder).

I'd also add that in the Hopkins fight, Jones had as much success against the ropes as Hopkins did. Man...you really lost me.




I'm lost. I asked a simple question...obviously I touched a nerve.



LOLOL. What I said was that Jones ate pressure fighters up in his prime. That counterpunchers such as Montell Griffin and Eric Harding are what gave him problems. Since you couldn't rebut that, you go into this long schpiel about Jones not being flawless, how you aren't dissing him, yada yada. Stick to the subject. Thanks.

You are trying to set the parameters of what we are talking about in such a way as suits you. You ignore everything in my post that does not allow you to make the claim "Roy does not struggle against pressure fighters".

I never said he did, the limit of my argument is that Roy possesed defensive frailities which included in some fights to appear somewhat vulnerable and without a response when blows started landing, often against the ropes. I believe this is clearly visible throughout his career, but it doesn't mean he wasn't able overcome them, he did. It also doesn't mean that no fighter ever could have exploited them, later in his career, they absolutely did.


If my argument lost you, or did not conform to the rigid parameters you seem so keen to impose, then I'm sorry, but I made the argument I want to make, and if you can't or don't want to respond to it then that is up to you. I prefer to make balanced arguments when I can, and try not to see things as black and white, as in "Jones: Good, Jones: Bad". If you don't want to hear that I respect and admire Jones as a boxer, or that I am not dissing him, then that is up to you too, but please don't then fire back as though dissing him were exactly what I was doing.

My argument was clear, backed by examples, and was balanced to the point of sycophancy to Jones. Above all it is one that is widely shared. This is obviously not what you were looking for. If you are not prepared to engage with this type of argument and prefer simple minded, one sided analyses, or if you simply do not like my posting style, then there are plenty of other threads for you to read.
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MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES

[THE REED]

I'll accept it most likely RJJ by UD would be the bookies and peoples favourite, but KO by R1, or R5? Man handled? One he's never been KO'd, the only times he's been knocked down he's often been slightly off balance, regardless up within a few seconds.

then again... he never fought a prime 168 roy... either.

[IMDAZED]

You are trying to set the parameters of what we are talking about in such a way as suits you. You ignore everything in my post that does not allow you to make the claim "Roy does not struggle against pressure fighters".

I'm ignoring everything else irrelevant. I like to stick to topics...not wander around with random thoughts.

I said that your statement that Jones couldn't handle pressure fighters in his time was false. I backed this up with examples. You chose Vinny Pazienza - not a pressure fighter at all - as your example. Furthermore, Pazienza was stopped in six rounds. If that's your proof...

[abadger]

I'm ignoring everything else irrelevant. I like to stick to topics...not wander around with random thoughts.

I said that your statement that Jones couldn't handle pressure fighters in his time was false. I backed this up with examples. You chose Vinny Pazienza - not a pressure fighter at all - as your example. Furthermore, Pazienza was stopped in six rounds. If that's your proof...

You continue to ignore the actual content of my posts in pursuit of proving a point that you think you can win, but which I never said. I have nothing further to add, since you will not pay any attention anyway.
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Vaporizer.org

[ИATAS]

I don't see this fight going past round 6.

Jones by KO

[IMDAZED]

Jones's speed makes him a very heavy favourite to win by UD.

I give a prime Calzaghe a chance though. Jones has a lot of flaws in his technical game, especially defensively, he never looked good under pressure and could often appear vulnerable, just no-one was ever able to exploit it. We know he is vulnerable to KO so Calzaghe has a chance if he could somehow turn it into a real war. No easy task.

Isn't that what you said?

How is it possible to know he never looked good under pressure if no one was able to exploit it? Because fighters started landing good shots when he was in his mid 30's? Or maybe I read wrong.

[THE REED]

Isn't that what you said?

How is it possible to know he never looked good under pressure if no one was able to exploit it? Because fighters started landing good shots when he was in his mid 30's? Or maybe I read wrong.

lol case in point

[micky_knox]

Jones wins easily

I love JC but no way he ever beats a prime Jones