what if: James Toney vs. Joe Calzaghe @ 168 (Prime for prime)

[Cletus Funk]

No disagreement on your assessment on Nunn, although JC did hit harder than him in the 1st half of his career and JC used to hit a lot straighter than he does now. Nunn went after Toney with a different game than usual. I don't think he's ever thrown or landed as many punches as he did in that fight. His slickness was still there in patches but he was pretty much just beating Toney to the punch and unloading on him.

The Reid and Hopkins fights aren't Calzaghe at his best, they're examples of the flaws that come into his game from time to time - usually when he has to chase a fight. Even then he adapted and took Hopkins straight right away from him by the 4th round, which he'd do to Toney too. When he's on his game his defence is fine, especially when coupled with that chin of his.

Jirov doesn't have half the fighting brain or natural talent that Calzaghe has. There are similarities, but then agqain there are similarites between Herbie Hide and Ali.

Nunn is a better pure boxer than Calzaghe(who is not really a pure boxer to begin with) and he punches harder, is slicker, better defensively and does not get squared up. Calzaghe is completely vulnerable to obvious counter punches when he has his opponents on the ropes flurrying, which is why Hopkins was able to take advantage of it as well as Reid. In both fights, he was open for counter right hands and thats Toney's favorite punch.

Better comparison would be Calzaghe to Vasili Jirov. Not becuase I'm trying to prove a point, but becuase Jirov is a southpaw, high work rate, is fast, squared up but Jirov actually brings educated pressure. Like i said, Calzaghe is wide open when he throws those volume punches.

[daggum]

calzaghe did not hit harder than nunn ever in his whole entire life. his "first half of his career" where he knocked out 21 of 22 bums. very impressive. his stoppage of manfredo was impressive too. first guy to stop someone without actually hitting them and also winning against hopkins without actually hitting him. this guy is a trendsetter. maybe boxing will soon be on who can throw the most punches in 3 minutes ready go!

[Cletus Funk]

calzaghe did not hit harder than nunn ever in his whole entire life. his "first half of his career" where he knocked out 21 of 22 bums. very impressive. his stoppage of manfredo was impressive too. first guy to stop someone without actually hitting them and also winning against hopkins without actually hitting him. this guy is a trendsetter. maybe boxing will soon be on who can throw the most punches in 3 minutes ready go!

Almost Willie Pep-esque, isn't he?

[daggum]

go watch michael nunn's one punch ko of sumbu kalambay then tell me calzaghe has that type of power or has ever done that to a man. i'm amazed at that statement. almost all of calzaghes stoppages came as accumulation or ref stoppages when he was flailing away like an infantile ******. more power? more power? step off the hype train sir.

[Cletus Funk]

go watch michael nunn's one punch ko of sumbu kalambay then tell me calzaghe has that type of power or has ever done that to a man. i'm amazed at that statement. almost all of calzaghes stoppages came as accumulation or ref stoppages when he was flailing away like an infantile ******. more power? more power? step off the hype train sir.

Yet he couldn't put away Barkley, who Nigel Benn sparked in a round in his very next fight?

Any fighter can land a one-off shot like the Kalambay fight.

[daggum]

Yet he couldn't put away Barkley, who Nigel Benn sparked in a round in his very next fight?

Any fighter can land a one-off shot like the Kalambay fight.

no not any fighter not calzaghe he doesn't have that power. are you expecting nunn to ko everyone he faces cause well thats just not gonna happen. nunn has ko'd good opponents such as donald curry and kalambay. calzaghe's best ko is over.......................um manfredo? or maybe mario veit. his mythical punching power doesn't exist. it didn't go away it never was there.

[slicksouthpaw16]

No disagreement on your assessment on Nunn, although JC did hit harder than him in the 1st half of his career and JC used to hit a lot straighter than he does now. Nunn went after Toney with a different game than usual. I don't think he's ever thrown or landed as many punches as he did in that fight. His slickness was still there in patches but he was pretty much just beating Toney to the punch and unloading on him.

Calzaghe in my opinion is better off fighting the way he fights. Actually, Lacy would have actually had his chances against early Calzaghe. Calzaghe is now more slick, better defensively, has better boxing skills and is buiser than he was when he was in his prime. Prime Calzaghe was carried away with punching and didn't have the skills that he has now. He was too brave and it would have costed him if he was fighting a puncher like Lacy and Kessler. The style that he has now is better for him, despite the lack of pop in his punches.

Where Nunn went wrong was that he didn't conserve his energy in the early stages of the fight. He would box, move and throw volume punches for the entire time, which wore him out and why he didn't have anything left in the tank late.

The Reid and Hopkins fights aren't Calzaghe at his best, they're examples of the flaws that come into his game from time to time - usually when he has to chase a fight. Even then he adapted and took Hopkins straight right away from him by the 4th round, which he'd do to Toney too. When he's on his game his defence is fine, especially when coupled with that chin of his.

I can't say that Toney wasn't at his best against Tiberi ,Thazi and Griffin but you can say that he wasn't at his best against Reid and Hopkins? I have yet to hear a reasonable excuse for Calzaghe in either fights. I still believe that he has a weakness against technical boxers and counter punchers. Counters are what systematically broke Jirov down over the course of the fight becuase he would like Calzaghe, get squared up, abandon his defense and throw volume punches. Hopkins and Reid both were able to take advantage of this by timing him with counters on the way in and using rought tactics. Toney is a throw back to the old fighters becuase his inside game is superior to anyone of the 90's and he can take a hell of a shot. Thats where Calzaghe would have problems. He does not have anything to get Toney's respect and Toney have everything in his arsenal to get Calzaghe's.

Calzaghe has not faced anyone like James Toney and honestly, i can't say the same things about Toney. He has fought every name fighter and caught a major belt from middleweight clear up to heavyweight. Think about it, who has Calzaghe beaten that is similar to Toney or as good technically? Lacy? A one dimensional ****er that was overrated by the public and many boxing observers. A great impressive win over an unbeaten favorite, but no. Kessler? A straight up style European fighter that is not elusive and one dimensional. He just goes back and fourth and fights off of what his opponents does. Hopkins even at that stage in his career made Calzaghe look average. Why? because he used his tools and studdied Calzaghe. He knew that he has the flaws that i mentioned. Thats why i would favor a young Hopkins(or even the Hopkins that fought Taylor over Calzaghe. Robin Reid was a good fighter, but never elite. Toney is on an entire different level than these fighters. Calzaghe matching well against any top notch elusive counter puncher/technical boxer is something that i don't see happening becuase again, he has those flaws.


If Toney comes in out of shape the way he did in his struggles and losses at super middleweight, than best believe that Calzaghe would win decisively. A fastasy match up is when both fighters are at their prime and their very best. If Toney comes in shape, then Calzaghe would lose a convincing decision.

[Cletus Funk]

Everyone who's followed his career must be lying then. You don't knock Eubank clean accross the ring or have Mitchell stumbling like a drunk if you have no power.

Curry was ruined by the time Nunn got to him BTW, which pretty much just leaves Tate and Kalambay as his only top level stoppages by my memory, neither at 168lb.

no not any fighter not calzaghe he doesn't have that power. are you expecting nunn to ko everyone he faces cause well thats just not gonna happen. nunn has ko'd good opponents such as donald curry and kalambay. calzaghe's best ko is over.......................um manfredo? or maybe mario veit. his mythical punching power doesn't exist. it didn't go away it never was there.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Yet he couldn't put away Barkley, who Nigel Benn sparked in a round in his very next fight?

Any fighter can land a one-off shot like the Kalambay fight.

Toney stopped Barkely in the 10th round and won the IBF super middleweight championship. Also, the Benn/Barkely fight occured well before the Barkely/Toney fight.

[TheGreatA]

Toney stopped Barkely in the 10th round and won the IBF super middleweight championship. Also, the Benn/Barkely fight occured well before the Barkely/Toney fight.

I think he meant the Nunn vs Barkley fight. That was a pitiful display but so was Benn vs Barkley.

The referee let Benn hit Barkley about 3 times on the floor with rabbit punches, then he stops the fight because of the 3 knockdown rule although Barkley was still ready to fight.
That fight along with Pac vs Marquez I are the best reasons why the 3 knockdown rule should not be used.

Anyway Barkley was a tough guy and I never saw him truly KO'd atleast in his prime.


Here's the 1 round war, too bad it was cut short.