BOXING needs SMALLER GLOVES!!!

[mrpain81]

I know that Margarito vs Cotto in Vegas is going to have 8oz gloves. I hope this becomes a general rule change and not just an exception. 10oz's does seem excessively big for jrWW's and I've said this for a long time.

I know Vegas made the change with the intent of making it safer for boxers but is there any medical evidence that shows larger gloves are safer than smaller gloves for boxers in the long term?

Like mentioned above, there are guys who have been KO'd a lot of times in MMA but dont show any of the slurring or stuttering that some boxers who have never been KO'd show. Randy Couture, Vanderlei Silva, Cabbage.

We also dont see guys dying from quick KO's we see it from boxers who have taken a prolonged beating and larger gloves sizes increases the chances of that to some extent.

Slurring Brain Damage?

[Left2body]

I've always thought if they had brass knuckles it would be more exciting, maybe people from the crowd can start throwing baseball bats and crowbars in the ring.


Risk per Million Participants

Bare-Knuckle Pugilism

n August 1824, an anonymous writer for the Annals of Sporting and Fancy Gazette (volume 6, page 179) reported that there were 859 prizefights in England between 1719 and 1824. The Data document 24 deaths in England during that period. There are two participants per match, so the death rate for eighteenth century English bare-knuckle pugilism appears to be about 14,000 deaths per million participants ([24 deaths/[859 fights x 2 participants] x 1,000,000).

Professional Boxing

During 2002 and 2003, the Nevada State Athletic Commission approved about 113 bouts per month between male professional boxers, and another 2.5 bouts per month between female professional boxers. For source documentation, see http://boxing.nv.gov.

From January 1979 to May 2003, there were 293 months. This idiosyncratic period was used so that calculations would be directly comparable to Original Toughman. The Data document the deaths of five male boxers in Nevada during those 293 months. Thus, the death rate for male professional boxers in Nevada appears to be about 76 deaths per million participants (5 deaths/[293 months x {113 bouts per month x 2 fighters per bout}] x 1,000,000).

http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm

Smaller gloves or no gloves safer?

You can't compare 18th century fights to todays fights. They fought something like 30-50 round fights and many of those deaths could've easily have been heavily contributed by fatigue, barbaric referring allowing fights to go on to far and I also doubt there were fight doctors at these bare knuckle fights and if there were they were far less qualified to treat them than todays doctors are.

You also use female fights in your calculations further muddling the waters. Female natural power is going to be significantly less than males.

You also missing half of the point in safety. Safety also includes brain damage which is clearly apparent in fighters like Holyfield, Meldrick, Whittaker, James Toney.

How about you compare MMA numbers to Boxing numbers. That would give a bigger sample pool and also compare apples to apples.

[mrpain81]

I agree that having 10oz gloves on 135 pounders is a joke, if it were 6oz to featherweight, 8oz to middleweight I would have no problem with that.

I agree with other posters how they say the referee's back in the old days were some sick ****ing dogs, just look at these old warriors Zale and Rocky Graziano both had a bad case of pugilistic dementia.

The ref actually helps Graziano get to his feet take one of the most devistating ko's ever.



Plus fighters would be ko'd and they would not be suspended from the commisions like they are now after a ko loss, there was not the technology for the fighters to get cat scans and MRI's. They would have severe injuries to their brains, and would continue to fight at an outstanding pace year in and year out.

[Left2body]

Slurring Brain Damage?

Didn't say there weren't any just said there were many that have been KO'd many times that dont have slurring or dont slur nearly as there counter part in boxing does (equal KO defeats). Look at Couture, Rampage, Vanderlie, Cro-cop, Mark Coleman, Sakuraba.

Then you look at some boxers who were NEVER KO'd and they are worse than these guys who have multiple KO defeats. Toney, Whittaker.

[Left2body]

I agree that having 10oz gloves on 135 pounders is a joke, if it were 6oz to featherweight, 8oz to middleweight I would have no problem with that.

I agree with other posters how they say the referee's back in the old days were some sick ****ing dogs, just look at these old warriors Zale and Rocky Graziano both had a bad case of pugilistic dementia.

The ref actually helps Graziano get to his feet take one of the most devistating ko's ever.



Plus fighters would be ko'd and they would not be suspended from the commisions like they are now after a ko loss, there was not the technology for the fighters to get cat scans and MRI's. They would have severe injuries to their brains, and would continue to fight at an outstanding pace year in and year out.

Yeah, I agree it was brutal back then. I remember seeing some of those old fight clips and there was no neutral corner or standing eight. After Knock downs a guy getting up would have his opponent literally standing right over him.

[eastsdepwrpnchr]

In the upcoming years, Many MMA fighters will begin to show signs of Dementia pugilistica. Dementia pugilistica takes a while to develop, and the majority of MMA participants have not been in the sport long enough to develop it. In my opinion, the combination of brutal knockouts and the reckless sparring habits used by many MMA Fighters and camps like chute box will lead to a widespread outbreak of the disorder.

[Left2body]

In the upcoming years, Many MMA fighters will begin to show signs of Dementia pugilistica. Dementia pugilistica takes a while to develop, and the majority of MMA participants have not been in the sport long enough to develop it. In my opinion, the combination of brutal knockouts and the reckless sparring habits used by many MMA Fighters and camps like chute box will lead to a widespread outbreak of the disorder.

Thats why I gave examples of fighters who have been in the sport 7+ years and with multiple KO losses. I can't say what the ratio is but I would suspect that if a thorough study was performed that MMA fighters would have a lower percentage of accourences and severity.

[mrpain81]

You can't compare 18th century fights to todays fights. They fought something like 30-50 round fights and many of those deaths could've easily have been heavily contributed by fatigue, barbaric referring allowing fights to go on to far and I also doubt there were fight doctors at these bare knuckle fights and if there were they were far less qualified to treat them than todays doctors are.

That's the only data there is to compare bare knuckle era to today, too bad there is very little information.

You also use female fights in your calculations further muddling the waters. Female natural power is going to be significantly less than males.

You seriously think there are many female fights? I have been to over 15 boxing shows in las vegas and I have yet to see a female fight live.

You also missing half of the point in safety. Safety also includes brain damage which is clearly apparent in fighters like Holyfield, Meldrick, Whittaker, James Toney.

Is there any proof that the smaller gloves will prevent brain damage?

Dementia pugilistica (DP), also called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), chronic boxer’s encephalopathy, traumatic boxer’s encephalopathy, boxer's dementia, and punch-drunk syndrome, is a neurological disorder which may affect career boxers and wrestlers who receive multiple dazing blows to the head. Dementia pugilistica is the severe form of chronic traumatic brain injury. The encephalopathy develops over a period of years, with the average time of onset being about 12–16 years after the start of a career in boxing. The condition is thought to affect around 15% of professional boxers, but it rarely affects other types of athletes. The condition may be caused by repeat concussions or repeat subconcussive blows, blows that are below the threshold of force necessary to cause concussion, or both.


Traumatic brain injury (TBI), traumatic injuries to the brain, also called intracranial injury, or simply head injury, occurs when physical trauma causes brain damage.

Every time there is a Ko there is truama to the brain and severe concussions, plus brain damage and boxing go hand in hand like soldiers and mutilation. Every fighter knows there is a risk many of the fighters you mentioned stay in the sport far to long.

How about you compare MMA numbers to Boxing numbers. That would give a bigger sample pool and also compare apples to apples.

MMA has only been sanctioned since 2001 in the US, I don't have the numbers to how many MMA shows go on any given weekend or how that will compare to boxing since MMA fighters don't only use their fist. There are already fighters in MMA showing signs of brain damage, as I pointed out repeat concussions or repeat subconcussive blows cause "Dementia pugilistica" Time will tell how much safer the smaller gloves are or if MMA is safer then Boxing.

Dana White used to always say there has never been a death in MMA or serious injury, unfortunately Sammy Vasquez Passed away last year after his MMA bout.

the results from the autopsy.

"The official ruling from the medical examiner's office stated that Vasquez died of "complications from blunt trauma to the head with subdural hemorrhage." Due to a significant backlog of cases at the medical examiner's office, it took four months to complete the necessary tests to determine definitively the cause of death.

A subdural hemorrhage occurs when a blood vessel bursts and blood builds up between the brain and its outer lining, which exerts pressure on the brain.

Most subdural hemorrhages are triggered by impact to the head, resulting from a car accident or severe fall. It's an injury rarely seen in mixed martial arts."

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/08/mma-fighter-sam-vasquez-died-of-severe-brain-injury-suffered-in/

[mrpain81]

Didn't say there weren't any just said there were many that have been KO'd many times that dont have slurring or dont slur nearly as there counter part in boxing does (equal KO defeats). Look at Couture, Rampage, Vanderlie, Cro-cop, Mark Coleman, Sakuraba.

Then you look at some boxers who were NEVER KO'd and they are worse than these guys who have multiple KO defeats. Toney, Whittaker.

There are many boxers who have been ko'd many times and are perfectly fine, MMA is a new sport. It's hard to say how those fighters will be in 10 years since the boxers you pointed out have been fighting 10 years longer.

Also Whittaker had a drug problem and never really took much punishment thru his career.

[eastsdepwrpnchr]

Thats why I gave examples of fighters who have been in the sport 7+ years and with multiple KO losses. I can't say what the ratio is but I would suspect that if a thorough study was performed that MMA fighters would have a lower percentage of accourences and severity.

I think it is just too early from a definitive opinion on MMA fighters. In the early days of MMA, the training camps were not like they are today. Back then going into a fight, alot the fighters were one dimensional fighters would only train whatever skill they excelled at. So, some grapplers did not even did not even experience any real pro level sparring while some strikers sparred way too much. This disparity in training regiments will either greatly increase or decrease a fighters chance of getting Dementia pugilistica. But in the future, It will easier to see if the disorder will easily develop in the current crop of fighters because they all follow a similar professionally developed training regiment.