So and so "comes in straight lines" is the current ****** thing being said

[kayjay]

about fighters.

Maybe one day this was a technical observation of some meaningful sort. Probably not, but in any case it is no longer.


If you're saying this, stop.

[abadger]

about fighters.

Maybe one day this was a technical observation of some meaningful sort. Probably not, but in any case it is no longer.


If you're saying this, stop.

Why do you think this is ******?

A fighter who tries to work his way into medium or close range to do his work, without any lateral movement, is a sitting duck for counters and potshots.

A fighter who is up on his toes with plenty of lateral head and body movement is a much more difficult target to hit.

Take a look at the early rounds versus the late rounds of Hatton Mayweather for an example of the benefits of lateral movement and an example of the pitfalls of not doing it, all in one fight.

You could also look at a similar scenario in Jones Jr - Pazienza, where the hopelessly outgunned Pazienza was able to make himself very hard to hit and reasonably competitive using lateral movement to an almost ridiculous degree.
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[kayjay]

Just watch how this gets used around here for even outfighters or stand-up boxers who throw straight punches

[abadger]

Just watch how this gets used around here for even outfighters or stand-up boxers who throw straight punches

Who, specifically are you thinking of? It depends on the fighters involved as to whether it is a valid criticism. For Hatton - Mayweather, a brawler against a boxer who makes his game picking off easy targets, it was fatal to hatton and thus a valid criticism.

For a fighter like (say) kessler, it is not such a valid criticism. There isn't anyone he could face who would be able to exploit his relatively straightforward game, at least not to the degree that it would be the reason they won. If he faced a fighter like Sugar Ray leonard though, it would be a different story.

Coming in in straight lines is a valid criticism if the opponent you are facing is likely to exploit it.
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[kayjay]

Who, specifically are you thinking of? It depends on the fighters involved as to whether it is a valid criticism. For Hatton - Mayweather, a brawler against a boxer who makes his game picking off easy targets, it was fatal to hatton and thus a valid criticism.

For a fighter like (say) kessler, it is not such a valid criticism. There isn't anyone he could face who would be able to exploit his relatively straightforward game, at least not to the degree that it would be the reason they won. If he faced a fighter like Sugar Ray leonard though, it would be a different story.

Coming in in straight lines is a valid criticism if the opponent you are facing is likely to exploit it.

Exactly. Someone who fights behind a jab should throw straight. Many have said it about Kessler.

I read it about Wlad this morning.

[abadger]

Exactly. Someone who fights behind a jab should throw straight. Many have said it about Kessler.

I read it about Wlad this morning.

I agree then that saying it about Wlad, other than in terms of a personal preference for a more dynamic style, is ridiculous. Given Wlad's relative strengths and weaknesses, it is the perfect style for him and is what enables him to win. There is no current heavyweight who will beat Wlad because of the way he fights.

If we had a Muhammad Ali type figure though, suddenly Wlad's style would look very risky indeed.
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[kayjay]

I agree then that saying it about Wlad, other than in terms of a personal preference for a more dynamic style, is ridiculous.

uh huh................

[PRboxingfan]

I agree then that saying it about Wlad, other than in terms of a personal preference for a more dynamic style, is ridiculous. Given Wlad's relative strengths and weaknesses, it is the perfect style for him and is what enables him to win. There is no current heavyweight who will beat Wlad because of the way he fights.

If we had a Muhammad Ali type figure though, suddenly Wlad's style would look very risky indeed.

What about a fighter like Toney? Byrd could've used it to his advantage, too (but he chose to brawl against Wlad for some ****** reason). A good boxer like Oleg Maskaev could use it to his advantage, too.

But, the fact still remains, styles match-ups determine outcomes more than anything else (and has been shortened to "styles makes fights" for a while now). It's a fighter's style vs. that of the other fighter that plays the biggest role in determining the outcome. Yes, power, timing, speed, and experience play a part, too, but having the advantage in those categories yet fighting the wrong style against a particular fighter would probably mean defeat. Just imagine if Floyd decided to not use his normal style and fight a come-forward fight against someone like Margarito or Cotto. He'd still have the advantages of speed, timing, and experience, but this style would mean he'd get his ass whooped!

[abadger]

What about a fighter like Toney? Byrd could've used it to his advantage, too (but he chose to brawl against Wlad for some ****** reason). A good boxer like Oleg Maskaev could use it to his advantage, too.

But, the fact still remains, styles match-ups determine outcomes more than anything else (and has been shortened to "styles makes fights" for a while now). It's a fighter's style vs. that of the other fighter that plays the biggest role in determining the outcome. Yes, power, timing, speed, and experience play a part, too, but having the advantage in those categories yet fighting the wrong style against a particular fighter would probably mean defeat.

Agreed, that is exactly what I'm saying. A fighter like a prime Toney might give Wlad trouble, but not the current Toney, and I don't think Maskaev is good enough. In that particular clash of styles I see Wlad's style nullifying his opponent's not the other way around.

Anyway, on the main point we are agreed. It is valid to criticise a boxer for his style if the opponent he will face is likely to exploit it.
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