Hopkins Magnanimous

[.Mik.]

He's not even making sense.

'The fans, the judges, they saw me school a fighter'...why didnt the judges go for you then.

People will look back at this on hindsight and realise that neither fighter were ever on serious danger, it was not an exciting fight, but it went how most people figured it would. Calzaghe outworked Hopkins at least 9 of the 12 rounds. I only scored him to be winning by 2, but thats because I expected the judges to be unfair (as it turns out, only one was).

The only robbery ANYONE can claim is Calzaghe over the fact that the one judge scored it in favour of Hopkins (any time there is such a discrepancy between two judges and the majority of expert-cards requires serious rethinking) and over Cortez's ridiculous propensity to not take a point away from Bernard for constantly holding, perpetually leaning into Calzaghe's face with his head and play-acting over his phantom bollock-shot. Had that been the other way around, Calzaghe would've had a point taken off and would've been warned for disqualification.

Hopkins was good, his counter punching was good, his knockdown was good, his conditioning was good. In the last 6 rounds he barely threw a significant punch...he barely threw a punch whatsoever. He may not have been hurt, but the judges should always favour aggression over backing off UNLESS the person backing off is hitting with the counter punches and in the second half of the fight Hopkins wasnt.

As with the Hatton vs Mayweather fight, a number of us ardent Hatton fans came on here afterwards and admitted that the better man won and showed appreciate for Floyd. You should be equally good sports. Hopkins can have NO complaints, his fans can have NO complaints. You had home territory, you had the ref and you had one ridiculous judge and you were still beaten, accept it with grace and humility, even if your fighter has not.

That was a POOR version of a Calzaghe in there for the first half of the fight, he suffered from the knockdown and he never got his full offense going. Hopkins still lost to that whiteboy.

[.Mik.]

I'm posting this here because for some reason it wont let me post a new thread.

I watched the fight again today. In the fresh light of day it changed my mind on a couple of things. Firstly that Cortez was actually fine for the first few rounds, it was when Nard got tired and started fouling constantly that Cortez really lost his way, but he was still fairly equal with both fighters, just generally completely ineffective. Secondally, while I think that the way Hopkins fans and the fighter himself have behaved after the fight is disgraceful and disrespectful, I have nothing but respect for his fighting ability. He never won the fight, never deserved to be close to winning a decision, but he neutralised Joe's strengths better than anyone else ever has. He just wasnt able to impose himself on the fight after round 3 whatsoever.

Anyway, I've come up with a list of facts that people really ought to adhere to about the fight:

1). Hopkins scored a solid legitimate knock down in the first round. Calzaghe got up, shook it off and showed no signs of suffering from it. He took a cut, but it never opened back up after the first round, and apart from a nick was never 'busted up' at any stage. His face at the end of the fight looked very little different to usual.

2). Hopkins was the better fighter for much of the first 3 rounds.

3). From Round 4 onwards, Calzaghe began to take over the fight.

4). From Round 6 Hopkins looked tired and began holding, using his head, holding, punching the hips and holding much more frequently.

5). Throughout the fight, Hopkins landed the harder and cleaner punches, but not many of them.

6). Throughout the fight Calzaghe threw and landed more punches.

7). Calzaghe pushed on, Hopkins backed off.

8). Joe Cortez helped Hopkins more than Calzaghe. He punished Ricky Hatton repeatedly for much less 'rough-housing' than Hopkins employed.

9). Hopkins used the 'low blow' as an opportunity to get his breath back, he knew that he was tired and won the round with a low blow as he was much fresher for a few minutes after his little rest.

10). Neither fighter was ever in serious danger of suffering a knockout or a stoppage.

11). Calzaghe won the vast majority of the last 2/3s of the fight by being busier, more active, throwing and landing more shots.

12). The fight was in America, Joe Cortez was the referee, there were three American judges. ALL THESE THINGS favoured Hopkins. If the fight was in Wales, with a British referee and three British judges, Hopkins and his fans would not dispute that it favours Calzaghe whatsoever.

13). Hopkins style neutralised much of Calzaghe's best work and made him look nowhere near as good as usual.

14). Hopkins work rate slowed dramatically after he got tired (around the 6th round), where he started employing more spoiling tactics than fighting.

15). Bernard Hopkins dropped to his knees without having been given a low blow in the 11th round. So that was either a knock down, or Bernard was cheating to give himself a rest. The referee did not buy it as a low blow.

16). Calzaghe won the fight on the scorecard of the virtually EVERY major credible sources (ringside, ex-professional, HBO, Setanta, BBC, commentators etc).

17). Calzaghe won the fight clearly on 2 of the 3 AMERICAN judges scorecards...IN AMERICA.

18). Calzaghe and his fans gave credit to an incredibly difficult top P4P wily 43 year old who is in excellent condition and has an excellent boxing brain.

19). Bernard Hopkins and his fans (generalism) gave Calzaghe NO credit, claim that EVERYONE saw it as a wide Hopkins win...despite points 16 and 17.

20). Calzaghe barely ever complained about Hopkins rough-housing, Hopkins did just as much if not more.

21). Joe Calzaghe won the fight.

Moaning and pissing about a loss and giving no credit to your opposition is the sign of bad sports, delusional fans and people who do not know enough about boxing to discuss it on such a forum. If you win the scorecards you win the fight, if you win virtually EVERYONES scorecards of everyone who matters, then it simply isnt contestable. When was the last time someone won the judges scorecards, the commentators scorecards, everyone of significances scorecards and legitimately didnt deserve the win? You're embarrassing yourself arguing about all this, your shaming Hopkins tremendous legacy. Accept these facts, you're becoming jokes.

[Technical_Skill]

To be fair i think its a bit rich of calzaghe fans to call people delusional, this is what i have learnt from calzaghe fans today.

Calzaghe is similar to Marvin Haggler

Hopkins is similar to Roberto Duran

Calzaghe has more boxing ablity than James Toney

Calzaghe has fought better opposition than Floyd Mayweather

Before the calzaghe fight fans called hopkins overrated and that he fought blown up fighters, as soon as calzaghe beats him, bernard is a world class fighter who beat tarver (who is now champion) and winky and its a major achievement.

Calzaghe is P4P number one.

The only fighter who could have ever beat calzaghe from 168-175 is a prime roy jones, no one else in history could have.



Thats ****ing embarassing, and thats why people dont like him or his fans.

[.Mik.]

Lets be honest here mate. By far the most vocal fans are the ones who said that Hopkins would beat Calzaghe and then came on here screaming 'ROBERRY!!!!' when anyone with eyes knows the facts. This thread isnt about building up Joe Calzaghe. In his last two fights he's beaten the best in his division and then a top P4P contender. To me, that merits his position as a solid top 3 P4P fighter...cos I cant think of three other people who have done the same (also, if this was a robbery, Pac vs JMM was a ****ing murder).

I dont know where Calzaghe would rank alongside many of the people you've named and who I know that you favour, because he never fought them. I'll judge him on those he fights and those he defeats...although at the moment, those are the same thing.

[Technical_Skill]

Lets be honest here mate. By far the most vocal fans are the ones who said that Hopkins would beat Calzaghe and then came on here screaming 'ROBERRY!!!!' when anyone with eyes knows the facts. This thread isnt about building up Joe Calzaghe. In his last two fights he's beaten the best in his division and then a top P4P contender. To me, that merits his position as a solid top 3 P4P fighter...cos I cant think of three other people who have done the same (also, if this was a robbery, Pac vs JMM was a ****ing murder).

I dont know where Calzaghe would rank alongside many of the people you've named and who I know that you favour, because he never fought them. I'll judge him on those he fights and those he defeats...although at the moment, those are the same thing.

I judge p4p on skills, beating kessler doesnt make you p4p 1 or 2 or even 3. The whole point of pound for pound is to indentify the best boxers in the world regardless of weight.

Rafeal Marquez
Joel Casamayor
Juan Manuel Marquez

These men are more skilled then calzaghe, and proved their skills against better opposition, fact. No he doesnt deserve to be listed above these guys imo.

Calzaghe fans play the same old games, before the Kessler fight, Kessler was a nobody who hadnt fought anyone, as soon as calzaghe beats him, he is a great fighter. Before the fight, Hopkins was a fraud who beats up smaller men, as soon as calzaghe wins, hopkins is a legitmate threat and calzaghe winnning is a major achievement.

Talk about double standards.

[.Mik.]

The same can be said the other way around. Before the fight Bernard is smart, will always get the win whatever way possible, Calzaghe will fold under the pressure, get beaten by straight rights all night, cannot handle Bernard's tactics and has never fought a skilled champion on a big stage. After the fight...no credit.

I dont know why you ALWAYS want to suck people into talking about Calzaghe's legacy or his P4P credentials. Most likely because you dont want him talked about in the same breath as Floyd and Roy Jones, who seem to be your heroes. This thread wasnt about P4P, it wasnt about his legacy, so why bring that here?

[Technical_Skill]

The same can be said the other way around. Before the fight Bernard is smart, will always get the win whatever way possible, Calzaghe will fold under the pressure, get beaten by straight rights all night, cannot handle Bernard's tactics and has never fought a skilled champion on a big stage. After the fight...no credit.

I dont know why you ALWAYS want to suck people into talking about Calzaghe's legacy or his P4P credentials. Most likely because you dont want him talked about in the same breath as Floyd and Roy Jones, who seem to be your heroes. This thread wasnt about P4P, it wasnt about his legacy, so why bring that here?

Its a forum aint it?

Besides, the orignal point still stands, i dont think you should be calling hopkins fans delusional, not after seeing the garbage posted by quite a few calzaghe fans today, to say its embarassing is an understatement, comparing calzaghe to Haggler, and saying he is the best in the sport is a joke and only jingoistic morons really believe that ****.

Your man won, well done, behave with a little dignity though, whiny threads calling hop fans delusional and saying they are gonna tarnish his legacy are

a) Not true,
b) just gonna inflame things further

People will make up their own minds on hopkins vs calzaghe regardless, your 21 points arent gonna make a difference, and to be honest, this thread would have sunk if i hadnt of posted in it anyways.

[.Mik.]

The Hopkins fans who were claiming a robbery (at least 20-30 at my last count, made within an hour of the fight last night) ARE delusional.

The Calzaghe fan who claim that Calzaghe is undoubtedly better than Prime Roy Jones, undispute P4P number 1 top boxer in the world, as good as Marvin Haggler in his prime (which actually wasnt said at all anyway), has more ability than James Toney etc (maybe 2 or 3 people?) are also delusional.

If you ask me, EVERYTIME a fighter gets defeated (or at least 4 out of the 5 times), completely denying it WILL damage his legacy. Particularly when the boxer and the fans are doing it. Nothing worse in a sport than an unsporting loser with no grace or humility.

I'm behaving with perfect dignity, I give Hopkins his dues on a number of occassions throughout my posts in this thread. However, he got beat, people should accept it.