Why Joe Calzaghe Should Fear Bernard Hopkins

[Neckodeemus]

Just one little thing. Joe doesn't have brittle hands from throwing his punches one way or another. Whichever way he throws them, he's had 17 KO's and 15TKO's. If he HAS brittle hands -which I doubt- it HAS to be the result of poor nutrition when growing up. Ostiogenesis Imperfecta it's called, and it begins in childhood. I don't know when he's had his KO's but I recall counting them a while back, and perhaps you're right about 1997, but, as you know, many TKO's are really KO's too, with the ref just waving it off without counting the guy out.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that you take a hell of a lot of space to say practically nothing, and what you do say is questionable- to be kind. More like what we use to call, a "flight of fancy". I was rather pleased with myself that I understood every word.

I have no intention of being nasty and I hope you won't take my comments as insults because I do not mean them this way. I believe that you yourself know your own writing and composing weaknesses.

Probably hundreds, if not thousands, of fighters every week have problems, even fight postponments or cancellations from a variety of injuries, of ALL kinds, of which "hands" are only one. We can't read through a daily boxing site without seeing cancellations or substitutions etc. Part of the business.

If you're an amateur, with no professional ambitions, you just strap it up and get on with it. If you're a pro, the opponent is weak, and you're not desperate for money, you postpone or cancel.

I am right about 1997. Why would a guy reared on Italian food, cheap to make, full of goodness, grow up with a bone disease that only threatens his hands. TKO, in our rulebook, is when a fight is stopped by injury or cut. When the ref waves it off the ref stops the fight, RSF, again a deceptive result, see Manfredo. I think my points about his punch technique and whatnot stand, they were far more plausible, and refer to evidence, as opposed to your "it was his diet wot done it" point of view.

You took two paragraphs to dissect my compostion wastefulness, is that oxymoronic thinking at work there?

As stated the points about Joe stand, as his father pointed out he was getting close to being Mr Sicknote in boxing.

[Neckodeemus]

And I forgot to add ...........The way you talk about Calzaghe's punching style makes me wonder if you've ever fought in the ring yourself. I mean that if you had, and had PROPER training, you'd NEVERpunch they way you've described it. And it you DID, you'd have your ears handed to you on a spit. (I mean the sort of spit they do shish-kabobs on ).

You might also have to piece you finger-bones together on a piece of shoe-lace. I wouldn't know, because I've NEVER punched that way.

I've had a sore KNUCKLE occasionally, as well as sore other parts. But what of it??

I suggest that you have a good talk with Joe's trainer, Enzo Calzaghe, and ask him exactly HOW he taught Joe to puch, HOW he showed him the PROPER way to close his fist..to get the best result.

EVERY schooled fighter learns this, and I don't see many of them end up as \10 year Champions, UNBEATEN, if they can't punch properly.

Nicko- calm down and look at what you're writing at least three times before pressing "send". Just think of "Joe of Arimathea" and take a deep breath.

Is this the old 'boxing writer who has never laced on a glove' thing popping up? I'm afraid I'll have to send that back with top-serve. Sparred many a round, southpaw style, know the difference between a tight fist and Joe's deliveries.

Joe was taught to fight the amateur style to perfection, that is why he won three ABA titles in, I believe, three different weight classes. He does not punch with the correct technique, his speed gets guys going but he does not often deliver a straight shot as correctly or as well as he should do. I can see with the naked eye that he does not punch correctly. Even close up, watching him work out, he can splay his punches.

Joe of who? Depending on his fathers name it would be Joseph bar Joseph most likely, shorter version of his name? Joseph.

[xfiles]

The reason Joe Crapzaghe hurts his hands all the time is him and his moron father still has him wrapping his hands with everlast wrist wraps and duck tape, What the **** is that?

[QUISQUEYA]

Hopkins went from slightly sinister clown to full-on bad man, it was a move said to have taken Calzaghe aback.

That made me chuckle.

[ExecutiveOutlaw]

Neckodeemus thanks for standing up for yourself and expressing how you feel. On this forum there is generally an extreme bias towards Calzaghe and Kessler from European posters (and to be fair an American bias from US posters as well), and its good to see a European writer go against the grain and speak his mind. Keep up the good work

[edgarg]

I am right about 1997. Why would a guy reared on Italian food, cheap to make, full of goodness, grow up with a bone disease that only threatens his hands. TKO, in our rulebook, is when a fight is stopped by injury or cut. When the ref waves it off the ref stops the fight, RSF, again a deceptive result, see Manfredo. I think my points about his punch technique and whatnot stand, they were far more plausible, and refer to evidence, as opposed to your "it was his diet wot done it" point of view.

You took two paragraphs to dissect my compostion wastefulness, is that oxymoronic thinking at work there?

As stated the points about Joe stand, as his father pointed out he was getting close to being Mr Sicknote in boxing.

why am I surprised that you completely misunderstood my letter?? Perhaps you "speed-read" too speedily?? Let me put it this way. I don't believe that Calzaghe has ANY KIND of brittle hands, from a mythical bone disease or anything else. His high output punching style WOULD break his hands, however strong, if he punched at full power every time.

If a fighter injures a hand badly, for him the fight is usually over, he'll lose, except in rare cases where a fighter disguises it and wins more or less one-handed. Calzaghe doesn't want to take that chance; being unbeaten means everything to him, and boosts his ego enormously.

I don't think you should practice your "footwork" by weaving your way arount the subject of whether you've had boxing experience-I mean REAL FIGHTS IN THE RING- or not. Sparring and clowning are not fighting a genuine opponent for real. however, you're not alone. For some mystical reason, I believe that the vast majority of boxing writers and enthusiasts have never had any real boxing experience. They "fight" vicariously. And this can often be noticed, by the silly, impractical things they say.

Yet I've known some "non-boxer" writers and "experts" who really ARE experts. Larry Merchant for example. He got his expertise from being a sports journalist for many years at the highest level. And he's also methodical, enquiring and factual, rarely speculative.

And for that other gentleman, I'm not in England or anwhere ""over there", I'm in the American Continent and have been for very many years. Perhaps NICKO, you just don't like Calzaghe's temperament and personality.

You're entitled!!

[edgarg]

why am I surprised that you completely misunderstood my letter?? Perhaps you "speed-read" too speedily?? Let me put it this way. I don't believe that Calzaghe has ANY KIND of brittle hands, from a mythical bone disease or anything else. His high output punching style WOULD break his hands, however strong, if he punched at full power every time.

If a fighter injures a hand badly, for him the fight is usually over, he'll lose, except in rare cases where a fighter disguises it and wins more or less one-handed. Calzaghe doesn't want to take that chance; being unbeaten means everything to him, and boosts his ego enormously.

I don't think you should practice your "footwork" by weaving your way arount the subject of whether you've had boxing experience-I mean REAL FIGHTS IN THE RING- or not. Sparring and clowning are not fighting a genuine opponent for real. however, you're not alone. For some mystical reason, I believe that the vast majority of boxing writers and enthusiasts have never had any real boxing experience. They "fight" vicariously. And this can often be noticed, by the silly, impractical things they say.

Yet I've known some "non-boxer" writers and "experts" who really ARE experts. Larry Merchant for example. He got his expertise from being a sports journalist for many years at the highest level. And he's also methodical, enquiring and factual, rarely speculative.

And for that other gentleman, I'm not in England or anwhere ""over there", I'm in the American Continent and have been for very many years. Perhaps NICKO, you just don't like Calzaghe's temperament and personality.

You're entitled!!

We don't have RSF over here we have TKO, many of which are. as you know, really KO's, where the fighter is struggling unsuccessfully to get up, and the ref stops counting and waves it off.

[Neckodeemus]

why am I surprised that you completely misunderstood my letter?? Perhaps you "speed-read" too speedily?? Let me put it this way. I don't believe that Calzaghe has ANY KIND of brittle hands, from a mythical bone disease or anything else. His high output punching style WOULD break his hands, however strong, if he punched at full power every time.

If a fighter injures a hand badly, for him the fight is usually over, he'll lose, except in rare cases where a fighter disguises it and wins more or less one-handed. Calzaghe doesn't want to take that chance; being unbeaten means everything to him, and boosts his ego enormously.

I don't think you should practice your "footwork" by weaving your way arount the subject of whether you've had boxing experience-I mean REAL FIGHTS IN THE RING- or not. Sparring and clowning are not fighting a genuine opponent for real. however, you're not alone. For some mystical reason, I believe that the vast majority of boxing writers and enthusiasts have never had any real boxing experience. They "fight" vicariously. And this can often be noticed, by the silly, impractical things they say.

Yet I've known some "non-boxer" writers and "experts" who really ARE experts. Larry Merchant for example. He got his expertise from being a sports journalist for many years at the highest level. And he's also methodical, enquiring and factual, rarely speculative.

And for that other gentleman, I'm not in England or anwhere ""over there", I'm in the American Continent and have been for very many years. Perhaps NICKO, you just don't like Calzaghe's temperament and personality.

You're entitled!!

So why throw the option into the ether RE a potential deficiency of some kind?

Look, fighters tend to hurt their hands for one of three reasons: They hit so hard it ruins their hands. Thomas Hearns needed surgery on his right hand, he hit very hard. Scrap this option for Joe, he has not scored a KO since 1997 and his stopapges since then have relied on the referee, I think Sheika may have been the injury stoppage in his run, he was certainly swollen. Next reason? They have naturally weak hands. Possible but scrap for Joe, on your terms, given his long career. Last but not least they are not punching correctly. Which is the case with Joe, plus as mentioned by Xfiles hand wrapping is an art, one I don't believe many trainers master. Joe's hand injuries are there on record, you tried to brush this over, I've explained, with examples why you are mistaken, perhaps you have not followed Joe's career on a month-by-month fight-by-fight basis the way I have and seen the injury problems.

What new nonsense is this? I sparred many rounds as a youth, the other guys tried to hit me back, I sparred men who had fought to prepare them for fights (which you would assume given my stance not being regular to a small ABA in Gorton). You probably have had more fights than Charlie Zellenoff but I won't take your word for it because, as is the case with not knowing Joe's career, your posts display no real kind of boxing expertise, that is not a dig, merely an observation.

To recap. You said Joe's injuries are overblown and rarely affected him. I threw this out. You said he has scored KO's. I threw this out. You said he may have some kind of nutrition problem stemming from his youth, I snorted with laughter, then threw this out. You tried to say that TKO stands for every stoppage known to man, including DQ no doubt if you want to suppose Tyson 'stopped' Ferguson, I threw this out by showing that in Britain we differentiate between KO (yes, if the guy is not getting up and the referee ditches the count it is a count out), TKO and RSF, I've thrown in DQ also.

As Excecutive kindly points out I've no problem defending my position but to resort to having to question my ability to box, write and then whether I 'like' Joe really is clutching at straws, please try to have a serious debate and re-read my posts on this subject.

As for liking Joe as a person or not, I said I met him, I said he respected the gym he was in, where I trained incidently, he showed himself to be well aware of what you do and don't do in the gym, an area Lacy lacked in, so why have to resport to questioning if I like him? You've run out of steam my friend.

As for KO, TKO and RSF, I attend a lot of live fights and send results to maintain a British boxing database and part of my role is to ensure that I get the stoppage facts right, and it tells when you look at the records because so few fighters have clean KO's. I know at a glance if I'm off to see a puncher by these records.

[Moon]

Guys, I love the fight scene, especially boxing. But, couldn't convert that love to an amateur career due to soft hands, really. If I went light on the heavy bag, things were usually OK, but as soon as I threw hard a few times I'd get more and more pain in my hands, until I just couldn't throw anything more.

The wraps were checked and changed many times but with no effect.

Turns out I have some sort of ligament issue that was caused by ...... bad diet as a young growing kid. Just the stuff you guys were talking about.

Bythe way, my wife's sister has very brittle bones and had to quit her place on the Gymnastics team going to the Nationals. She grew up in Italy, eating all the good stuff that MaMa prepared for the kids. No one else in her family has this issue, but her doctor has said convincingly it was her diet. So, it looks more like one person's poor diet is another person's feast, but their body dictates whther it's good enough food for their bodies to perform certain activities.

Just a thought.

[Neckodeemus]

Guys, I love the fight scene, especially boxing. But, couldn't convert that love to an amateur career due to soft hands, really. If I went light on the heavy bag, things were usually OK, but as soon as I threw hard a few times I'd get more and more pain in my hands, until I just couldn't throw anything more.

The wraps were checked and changed many times but with no effect.

Turns out I have some sort of ligament issue that was caused by ...... bad diet as a young growing kid. Just the stuff you guys were talking about.

Bythe way, my wife's sister has very brittle bones and had to quit her place on the Gymnastics team going to the Nationals. She grew up in Italy, eating all the good stuff that MaMa prepared for the kids. No one else in her family has this issue, but her doctor has said convincingly it was her diet. So, it looks more like one person's poor diet is another person's feast, but their body dictates whther it's good enough food for their bodies to perform certain activities.

Just a thought.

Sorry to hear about having to hold back your career, and your girlfriends woes. The reason for dismissing Joe's diet as a problem is that he won ABA titles the way most of us cross the street, then turned pro. His hands have deteriorated over time as a result of his punch technique. He injured his hand in the Ashira fight, I believe, hitting Evans with a splayed fist to the top of the head. If he was suffering diet problems, like your girlfriend, his career would have been pulled earlier, if he had hand problems, with respect like you had, then it would have been dead in the water before it started.

If Joe's diet had led to problems we would know by this point. His power is not Hearns-like so it is not that. It is his punch technique. People think there is a conspiracy to decry Joe's punching but the questions have dogged him for years and years, because of what you see with the naked eye. McGuigan talked about it, though in reference to Joe's finishing flurries. Setanta have been talking about it, I'm sure US media have talked about it, Hopkins has also.

This romantic notion of Joe training at the foot of the vallies in a shed is all very good but at some point you need to address the problems of being a top-level boxer. I know for a fact that he struggled with the weight for years because they do not know how to make the weight scientifically, going for the 'flog them' approach, this evidenced by their failed attempts to get expert help in. In England we also have trainers who are reknowned experts at looking after a fighter's hands. I believe Roach is known for this in the USA, being taught by Futch. I'm not sure Enzo, for all his gifts, knows how to make sure his fighter tapes their hands correctly. Enzo is largely self-taught, great, but Joe's problems stem from his punch technique. Some call them slaps, but they are not backhanders, I think he cuffs, in much the way Nelson could do. Joe punches like a British amateur fighter, his quantity leads the way to stoppages.