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“Fighting Words” – The Iceman Traineth, the Iceman Watcheth
By David P. Greisman (April 7, 2008)
MAXBOXING: Who are you training these days? What other fighters have you trained in the past that you no longer work with? Do you train out of a specific gym?
ICE: Right now my main focus is on IBO 122 pound champion Mike Oliver, NABF cruiserweight champion Matt Godfrey and current Western New England Golden Gloves lightweight champion Joey "Chip" Perez. In the past I have worked with several top flight amateurs like U.S. Armed Forces Champion Orlando Cordova, National Junior Olympic Champion Sammy Vega, National PAL Champion Dwayne Hairston and Ohio State Fair Champion Greg Cuyler.
On the pro side I worked most closely with Lawrence Clay-Bey for the last ten fights or so of his pro career. I have also worked with, among others, Israel "Pito" Cardona, Scott "The Sandman" Pemberton, "Sucra" Ray Olivera and, of course, former WBA 154 pound champion Jose Rivera.
I also trained Elizabeth Muller when she won the WIBF lightweight title back in 2001 at Foxwoods Casino.
For the last two years I have worked out of a gym here in Glastonbury, Connecticut called L.A. Boxing.
MAXBOXING: For what time period did you work with Chad Dawson?
ICE: I have actually known Chad since he was 11, worked his corner a time or two at the nationals when his first coach (Brian Clark) couldn't make it out there for one reason or another and I sparred many rounds with him since he was 15 but we didn't work together as trainer-boxer until his fights with Carl Daniels, Darnell Wilson (not the Ding-A-Ling Man) and Efrain Garcia in 2004 and 2005
MAXBOXING: How do you differentiate the talent level of those who come in to work with you? How can you tell that someone's going to be a contender? A champion? And how do you help a fighter get to such a level?
ICE: I think in many cases it is a thing where you can see right off that a guy has real potential but there are also other guys who may not have the great talent or athleticism but they can make up for it in other areas and go just as far or further than the guy with the superior talents.
I like to see that a guy has the ability to pick things up and execute them somewhat quickly and I also am particularly interested when I see a guy that is very open to learning the tricks of the trade, so to speak, because one of my main philosophies in regard to professional boxing goes like this: There is a whole lot more to this game in the ring that just throwing punches at each other to win a fight.
If I have helped any fighters raise their game so to speak I would say that one of the primary additions I have helped with is getting guys to jab better. I also am a real student of the mental side of boxing and I just about always use my own experiences as a fighter, whether it is in regard to something I did well and with success or with something I failed to do, to relate to the guys I've worked with. I am just about always on the same mental page with the guys I am working with.
MAXBOXING: As a trainer, what is it like to bring someone to their highest point, where they are fighting for a major belt? What about once they win it? I imagine Jose Rivera ties in here somewhere...
ICE: Well, training Jose to in the WBA Junior Middleweight title was extra special for several reasons. One is the fact that he and I were friends long before I ever took over as his trainer so I knew from way before how much dedication and desire to be a champion he really had. He is definitely a study in perseverance and a role model for any boxer who may be running into roadblocks in their career. If you really do want it then you have to stay with it no matter what.
It also comes into play that he and I sparred with each other many, many times over the years and, as a matter of fact, I was probably his main sparring partner when he won his first title at 147 a couple years before we beat Terra Garcia for the 154 pound title.
MAXBOXING: Similarly, what is it like in the case of Dawson, where you worked with someone in the past and then watch them reach the championship under someone else?
ICE: A lot of people ask me about that and they seemed so surprised that I don't exhibit a lot of disappointment over the situation but the fact is that I believe that old adage that says 'you should never fall in love with your fighter' because the boxing business is so shady and what not and I know with just about any fighter there is a very real chance that something outside of your relationship will eventually come into play and disrupt everything. Chad and I never had a problem in terms of our training together, I believe he would tell you the same thing. He asked me to stay on as his trainer when he made the switching over to Gary Shaw but I had a gym that I was running and I had a lot of kids I was looking after at the time so it just wasn't possible to drop everything for one fighter.
Sometimes now I hear about his fights and I read where people talk about his excellent jab and his new and improved body attack and that makes me feel good because there is no way anyone could ever say that I was not an integral part of him gaining those attributes. Those, along with his mental approach to professional boxing, are the three main things I focused on when I trained him and I could actually pinpoint it to exact dates in time when he really turned the corner as far as perfecting them under me.
MAXBOXING: How do you rate Dawson these days, compared to where he was when he was with you? What is there that you would have him do differently?
ICE: To tell you the truth, and this is not said in a negative way at all, but he looks very much the same to me as back then and that's a good thing because even though he was relatively inexperienced back then he was already a world class guy. I'll say that he definitely looks to be filling out into his own mental strength. He's seems to have the mental strength of an experienced fighter now as opposed to a younger guy who still wonders what's around the next corner. The experience in the ring he's gained have seemed to have given him a new level of calmness in the ring. He also has Eddie (Mustapha Muhammad) with him every day and as a former world champ himself I know he has someone to relate to him on his level whenever he needs him.
I can remember when Lacy was the IBF champion at 168 and Chad was still at 160 and everybody was talking about Chad one day getting a fight with Jermain Taylor and I always said that with his height, his style, his reflexes, his natural abilities, and with that good footwork that he learned from his first coach, Brian Clark, that he could have moved up and beaten Jeff back then for the 168 pound title. I mean, he would have had to move up anyway because making 160 was torture for him and I saw no point in staying at that weight while he was obviously still growing. It could have been a very tough fight, of course, but I honestly felt Chad could have done it back then and I publicly said as much because at the end of the day superior boxing skills like that coupled with a disciplined mind can overcome almost any style in the world.
Not that I would have him do anything differently now because what he has done since we parted ways has obviously worked wonders for him but, if anything, I would remind him of something I always told him when we worked together. And that is that when a guy like him comes along with those type of skills and that awesome height and range and reflexes and that sixth sense he seems to have in the ring, he should never give up those gifts in exchange for making himself more marketable or more TV friendly. The main thing is win and if he were to stay with his boxing and keep using his brain and force guys to adapt to him and his style he could be a nightmare for anyone in the world.
Put it this way. He has a potentially rough and tough fight coming up with Glen Johnson but if he stays with a strategy to box and use his skills under an extremely disciplined plan then he would be almost impossible to beat. I had him for three fights and for every fight I told him the same exact thing: "Box this guy, keep him turning, keep staying at your distance, throw ten jabs for every one punch he throws, and never get away from that no matter how easily you are winning. If your opponent adjusts well to you then you bring more to the game but if he doesn't, and he likely wont be able to, then just keep doing what you were doing al along."
And the fact of the matter is that in those three fights he didn't lose one single round.
By David P. Greisman (April 7, 2008)
MAXBOXING: Who are you training these days? What other fighters have you trained in the past that you no longer work with? Do you train out of a specific gym?
ICE: Right now my main focus is on IBO 122 pound champion Mike Oliver, NABF cruiserweight champion Matt Godfrey and current Western New England Golden Gloves lightweight champion Joey "Chip" Perez. In the past I have worked with several top flight amateurs like U.S. Armed Forces Champion Orlando Cordova, National Junior Olympic Champion Sammy Vega, National PAL Champion Dwayne Hairston and Ohio State Fair Champion Greg Cuyler.
On the pro side I worked most closely with Lawrence Clay-Bey for the last ten fights or so of his pro career. I have also worked with, among others, Israel "Pito" Cardona, Scott "The Sandman" Pemberton, "Sucra" Ray Olivera and, of course, former WBA 154 pound champion Jose Rivera.
I also trained Elizabeth Muller when she won the WIBF lightweight title back in 2001 at Foxwoods Casino.
For the last two years I have worked out of a gym here in Glastonbury, Connecticut called L.A. Boxing.
MAXBOXING: For what time period did you work with Chad Dawson?
ICE: I have actually known Chad since he was 11, worked his corner a time or two at the nationals when his first coach (Brian Clark) couldn't make it out there for one reason or another and I sparred many rounds with him since he was 15 but we didn't work together as trainer-boxer until his fights with Carl Daniels, Darnell Wilson (not the Ding-A-Ling Man) and Efrain Garcia in 2004 and 2005
MAXBOXING: How do you differentiate the talent level of those who come in to work with you? How can you tell that someone's going to be a contender? A champion? And how do you help a fighter get to such a level?
ICE: I think in many cases it is a thing where you can see right off that a guy has real potential but there are also other guys who may not have the great talent or athleticism but they can make up for it in other areas and go just as far or further than the guy with the superior talents.
I like to see that a guy has the ability to pick things up and execute them somewhat quickly and I also am particularly interested when I see a guy that is very open to learning the tricks of the trade, so to speak, because one of my main philosophies in regard to professional boxing goes like this: There is a whole lot more to this game in the ring that just throwing punches at each other to win a fight.
If I have helped any fighters raise their game so to speak I would say that one of the primary additions I have helped with is getting guys to jab better. I also am a real student of the mental side of boxing and I just about always use my own experiences as a fighter, whether it is in regard to something I did well and with success or with something I failed to do, to relate to the guys I've worked with. I am just about always on the same mental page with the guys I am working with.
MAXBOXING: As a trainer, what is it like to bring someone to their highest point, where they are fighting for a major belt? What about once they win it? I imagine Jose Rivera ties in here somewhere...
ICE: Well, training Jose to in the WBA Junior Middleweight title was extra special for several reasons. One is the fact that he and I were friends long before I ever took over as his trainer so I knew from way before how much dedication and desire to be a champion he really had. He is definitely a study in perseverance and a role model for any boxer who may be running into roadblocks in their career. If you really do want it then you have to stay with it no matter what.
It also comes into play that he and I sparred with each other many, many times over the years and, as a matter of fact, I was probably his main sparring partner when he won his first title at 147 a couple years before we beat Terra Garcia for the 154 pound title.
MAXBOXING: Similarly, what is it like in the case of Dawson, where you worked with someone in the past and then watch them reach the championship under someone else?
ICE: A lot of people ask me about that and they seemed so surprised that I don't exhibit a lot of disappointment over the situation but the fact is that I believe that old adage that says 'you should never fall in love with your fighter' because the boxing business is so shady and what not and I know with just about any fighter there is a very real chance that something outside of your relationship will eventually come into play and disrupt everything. Chad and I never had a problem in terms of our training together, I believe he would tell you the same thing. He asked me to stay on as his trainer when he made the switching over to Gary Shaw but I had a gym that I was running and I had a lot of kids I was looking after at the time so it just wasn't possible to drop everything for one fighter.
Sometimes now I hear about his fights and I read where people talk about his excellent jab and his new and improved body attack and that makes me feel good because there is no way anyone could ever say that I was not an integral part of him gaining those attributes. Those, along with his mental approach to professional boxing, are the three main things I focused on when I trained him and I could actually pinpoint it to exact dates in time when he really turned the corner as far as perfecting them under me.
MAXBOXING: How do you rate Dawson these days, compared to where he was when he was with you? What is there that you would have him do differently?
ICE: To tell you the truth, and this is not said in a negative way at all, but he looks very much the same to me as back then and that's a good thing because even though he was relatively inexperienced back then he was already a world class guy. I'll say that he definitely looks to be filling out into his own mental strength. He's seems to have the mental strength of an experienced fighter now as opposed to a younger guy who still wonders what's around the next corner. The experience in the ring he's gained have seemed to have given him a new level of calmness in the ring. He also has Eddie (Mustapha Muhammad) with him every day and as a former world champ himself I know he has someone to relate to him on his level whenever he needs him.
I can remember when Lacy was the IBF champion at 168 and Chad was still at 160 and everybody was talking about Chad one day getting a fight with Jermain Taylor and I always said that with his height, his style, his reflexes, his natural abilities, and with that good footwork that he learned from his first coach, Brian Clark, that he could have moved up and beaten Jeff back then for the 168 pound title. I mean, he would have had to move up anyway because making 160 was torture for him and I saw no point in staying at that weight while he was obviously still growing. It could have been a very tough fight, of course, but I honestly felt Chad could have done it back then and I publicly said as much because at the end of the day superior boxing skills like that coupled with a disciplined mind can overcome almost any style in the world.
Not that I would have him do anything differently now because what he has done since we parted ways has obviously worked wonders for him but, if anything, I would remind him of something I always told him when we worked together. And that is that when a guy like him comes along with those type of skills and that awesome height and range and reflexes and that sixth sense he seems to have in the ring, he should never give up those gifts in exchange for making himself more marketable or more TV friendly. The main thing is win and if he were to stay with his boxing and keep using his brain and force guys to adapt to him and his style he could be a nightmare for anyone in the world.
Put it this way. He has a potentially rough and tough fight coming up with Glen Johnson but if he stays with a strategy to box and use his skills under an extremely disciplined plan then he would be almost impossible to beat. I had him for three fights and for every fight I told him the same exact thing: "Box this guy, keep him turning, keep staying at your distance, throw ten jabs for every one punch he throws, and never get away from that no matter how easily you are winning. If your opponent adjusts well to you then you bring more to the game but if he doesn't, and he likely wont be able to, then just keep doing what you were doing al along."
And the fact of the matter is that in those three fights he didn't lose one single round.
Johnson is a good fighter and i like him, but Dawson will get your pay back for what he did to Roy Jones.
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