Please read before...

[Left2body]

Before comparing yesterdays fighters to todays we have to remember one thing, the weight classes have possibly shifted. I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a post about the greatest fighters at WW, MW...etc.

Before and into the 80's fighters weight-in the morning of the fight so they would have 4-8 hours to rehydrate after making weight. They almost always fought at there "natural" weight because you can't safely or effectively gain back 8-12% of your body weight the way todays boxers do.

Joan Guzman against Humberto Soto weighted-in at 129.5lbs fight time weight he was 144 IIRC, he is not alone Soto was around 140ish.

Cotto would've never fought at jrWW had he started fighting in the 70's. Same for Paul Williams who fought a WW fight with a fight night weight of 164.5lbs.

Taylor, Pavlik and Miranda all ballon to LHW's after weight in.

I dont want to single these guys out its done by 99.9% of fighters today but are we doing our old time greats a dis-service by comparing them to fighters in there divions today.

If Hagler were a modern fighter I wager he would probably be able to make jrMW or possibly even WW imagine him in those weight classes.

I just think that when we start making all these all time great list according to weight classes we gotta at least put an asterik * in there for all the pre-day before guys.

[Thread Stealer]

Before comparing yesterdays fighters to todays we have to remember one thing, the weight classes have possibly shifted. I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a post about the greatest fighters at WW, MW...etc.

Before and into the 80's fighters weight-in the morning of the fight so they would have 4-8 hours to rehydrate after making weight. They almost always fought at there "natural" weight because you can't safely or effectively gain back 8-12% of your body weight the way todays boxers do.

Joan Guzman against Humberto Soto weighted-in at 129.5lbs fight time weight he was 144 IIRC, he is not alone Soto was around 140ish.

Cotto would've never fought at jrWW had he started fighting in the 70's. Same for Paul Williams who fought a WW fight with a fight night weight of 164.5lbs.

Taylor, Pavlik and Miranda all ballon to LHW's after weight in.

I dont want to single these guys out its done by 99.9% of fighters today but are we doing our old time greats a dis-service by comparing them to fighters in there divions today.

If Hagler were a modern fighter I wager he would probably be able to make jrMW or possibly even WW imagine him in those weight classes.

I just think that when we start making all these all time great list according to weight classes we gotta at least put an asterik * in there for all the pre-day before guys.

I agree.

People always talk about a mythical matchup with fighter from the old days under different weigh in rules fighting a current day fighter with day before the fight weigh-ins.

In some instances, I don't see much of a difference. Guys like Mayweather and Barrera aren't big for their weight classes.

But for other guys, it's different. Guys like Paul Williams, Gerald McClellan, Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo, Miguel Cotto, etc....

Guys like Corrales and Castillo would have a size advantage against lightweight champs of the past such as Ray Mancini and Ken Buchanan.

I remember starting a Qawi vs. Calzaghe thread over on another board and people kept saying, "oh, they fight in different weight classes".

Calzaghe has long talked about having trouble making 168, and this is under the current day-before weigh-ins. In the early 80s, he'd most likely be fighting @ 175 (even if there were an 168 lb class back then).

[TheGreatA]

I would like to see Tommy Hearns fight at LW/LWW.

[frankpaganini]

Before comparing yesterdays fighters to todays we have to remember one thing, the weight classes have possibly shifted. I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a post about the greatest fighters at WW, MW...etc.

Before and into the 80's fighters weight-in the morning of the fight so they would have 4-8 hours to rehydrate after making weight. They almost always fought at there "natural" weight because you can't safely or effectively gain back 8-12% of your body weight the way todays boxers do.

Joan Guzman against Humberto Soto weighted-in at 129.5lbs fight time weight he was 144 IIRC, he is not alone Soto was around 140ish.

Cotto would've never fought at jrWW had he started fighting in the 70's. Same for Paul Williams who fought a WW fight with a fight night weight of 164.5lbs.

Taylor, Pavlik and Miranda all ballon to LHW's after weight in.

I dont want to single these guys out its done by 99.9% of fighters today but are we doing our old time greats a dis-service by comparing them to fighters in there divions today.

If Hagler were a modern fighter I wager he would probably be able to make jrMW or possibly even WW imagine him in those weight classes.

I just think that when we start making all these all time great list according to weight classes we gotta at least put an asterik * in there for all the pre-day before guys.

i agree.

and we have to take into consideration the advancements made in the sport...and human evolution...

look at fights from the 50's...put those guys in with a modern day fighter and you would see the difference immediately.

best shape of your life in the 50's or 60's and best shape of you life in 2008 is a difference...

everyone always says would so and so (usally one of the top guys in that era) from the 50's beat a top guy of the current day and you cant honestly answer that because its two COMPLETELY different eras and had the fighter of decades past grown up and fight in modern day it would be a difference...

just like comparing superbowl teams of 65 and superbowl teams of 2008 and asking who would win...

[OldSkool]

yer i totally agree mate. its always good to compare fighters though. thats another reason why boxing is such an amazing sport to follow.

[Left2body]

I would like to see Tommy Hearns fight at LW/LWW.

Sorry was to busy to get on after I posted this. But yeah, Hearns would've never won a belt at jrWW or LW. He would've been in prison for serial murder after his first few fights.

[raysan]

i agree.

and we have to take into consideration the advancements made in the sport...and human evolution...

look at fights from the 50's...put those guys in with a modern day fighter and you would see the difference immediately.

best shape of your life in the 50's or 60's and best shape of you life in 2008 is a difference...

everyone always says would so and so (usally one of the top guys in that era) from the 50's beat a top guy of the current day and you cant honestly answer that because its two COMPLETELY different eras and had the fighter of decades past grown up and fight in modern day it would be a difference...

just like comparing superbowl teams of 65 and superbowl teams of 2008 and asking who would win...

Very different. Boxers in the 50's still weighed as much as the boxers today, minus the heavy weights. In football, the difference would be players are bigger, faster, and stronger. I believe boxing is pretty equal through time periods because a fighter weighing 140 in the 50's would still be able to do what a fighter weighing 140 is doing today.

[Left2body]

Very different. Boxers in the 50's still weighed as much as the boxers today, minus the heavy weights. In football, the difference would be players are bigger, faster, and stronger. I believe boxing is pretty equal through time periods because a fighter weighing 140 in the 50's would still be able to do what a fighter weighing 140 is doing today.

I agree also (If the weight-in the morning of the fight) and if we dont include heavy weights. The big differences in basketball and football is that they are just plain bigger and henceforth stronger. But a natural MW of the past could still fight against a natural MW of today.

[tyson]

This covers the fysical part of the game. What about the psychological element?

Surely SRR was stronger and tougher mentally than Roy Jones?
The weekly wars and 200+ fights against everyone made sure of that.
Count in the fact that past fighters never had the time to be out of shape, and it will be an entirely different formula.

Strength, speed and skill are assets; mental willpower and toughness are the driving force.

I'd pick Rocky Marciano over David Haye, Jirov etc in cruiserweight any day.

I'd also pick Duran over Pacman, Barrera, Castillo, Mayweather, Corrales any day.

It's not so much about skill as mindset, really.

I'm not the most gifted fighter in the world, but if I want to kill you, I will try to kill you with every punch of every round, hit you on the breaks, throw you to the ground, hit and hold, headbutt, step on your toes, wrestle and shove you until the time is up or you can't take it anymore.

I might not be better than you, but I sure as hell will **** you up, win or lose.

That's the difference between me and "them", and that's the difference between today and past.

[raysan]

This covers the fysical part of the game. What about the psychological element?

Surely SRR was stronger and tougher mentally than Roy Jones?
The weekly wars and 200+ fights against everyone made sure of that.
Count in the fact that past fighters never had the time to be out of shape, and it will be an entirely different formula.

Strength, speed and skill are assets; mental willpower and toughness are the driving force.

I'd pick Rocky Marciano over David Haye, Jirov etc in cruiserweight any day.

I'd also pick Duran over Pacman, Barrera, Castillo, Mayweather, Corrales any day.

It's not so much about skill as mindset, really.

I'm not the most gifted fighter in the world, but if I want to kill you, I will try to kill you with every punch of every round, hit you on the breaks, throw you to the ground, hit and hold, headbutt, step on your toes, wrestle and shove you until the time is up or you can't take it anymore.

I might not be better than you, but I sure as hell will **** you up, win or lose.

That's the difference between me and "them", and that's the difference between today and past.

You cant measure that though.. I mean it has a lot to do with a person's upbringing and how much of a drive they have. Such as, how can you say Edison Miranda doesnt have a "driving force" after his life story, same with Kassim Ouma and those are just two extreme cases.

I dont think fighters back then had more of a drive just because they were older or in a different time period, of course some did, but its not something that applies to all where you can make a blanket statement, in my eyes.