No Country for Old Heavyweights

[edgarg]

Sorry BEEZ, I intended to attach to POP as I indicate. My mistake.

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

POP- Much of the fun is to have "countless debates over which is better". THAT'S the whole story of boxing discussion in a nutshell for nearly 200 years. And we're STILL doing it. What EVERYONE on these sites writes in about, when they're not bad-mouthing each other. What would YOU have to write about if this were to be taken away??

You surprise me when you call me "infamous". Are you sure you know exactly what this word means? I assume you do, and intend to grievously insult me. I don't think I deserve this, and I'll ignore it.

I also don't think that you, nor I, nor indeed anyone except the person involved, knows what's going on in his mind. Even then, he can change it, a "mind" being that sort of organ. Perhaps you and others think that I "defend the K's like nobody has ever seen" etc, but I speak up for anyone who's not getting fair play, if I can, and if without too much inconvenience. And what inconvenience is writing a few words anyway?? I wouldn't call it "defending" anyone.

The K's never read this page, so there's nothing in it for me .....so far anyway, although I run to meet the postman every day to see if there's a cheque for me. Except the concept of FAIR PLAY, in which I've been raised since childhood, and have adhered to, all through a very competitive multi-sports career, contact and otherwise.

Maybe the reason I take the contrary viewpoint on certain people is because I become repulsed at the enormous, regurgitated abuse for everything under the sun, which is heaped on these individuals, whom I don't know, never will, don't really care about. And on many others too. I try to be LOGICAL.

I doubt if a reason for VK fighting is to stoke his ego. It could be, but he's never shown any example of ego before. He was very unlucky to have been Champ for only a short time, when except for his brother, there was no one who could touch him. Maybe he feels it wasn't long enough? I don't know. It's more rational and likely, that the reason he wants to fight is because he wants to. Only HE can know if he wants to quit. Maybe for some, the way they find out is when or if, they get injured too often, or to badly, and THAT usually comes AFTER perhaps several opponents SHOW him.

As for VK getting no plaudits from fighting Peter, whom his brother's already beaten...well my answer is that he and is brother are two different fighters, styles make fights, and Peter has to be much better now than he was when WK beat him. Also....he'd be Champion, and beating him would give the two brothers their most wanted DREAM. It seems simple enough to ME. I could probably find other reasons. But why should I??

Regardless of my being "infamous" about "you know what", every word I wrote is perfectly true, and I'm only telling the facts reported by those who are generally accepted as being reputable. If they got twisted by opponents or rival managers or promoters, or just lazy journalists, I don't know. I also don't know why everyone is so down on this guy, and so slavishly supporting his young brother?? He's only 36 years old. Maybe it's what I mentioned in my first line above. It can provide an potentially endless disputative discussion. But I'm stopping right here. It WAS fun, but isn't now. Finis !!

He has money. It's ego. He failed at politics and boxing is there. He saw his brother being called the king of the heavyweights and he tried to jump back in out of jealousy. He jumped back in and got injured once again, and pulled out once again. He said over and over that he was taking a tuneup, now no tuneup. He came back to jump right into a title fight, win and then leaves again. And he wasn't calling out Valuev when he came back or Briggs, he wanted the weakest link, old man Maskaev. He could have easily fought Valuev in Germany and made a mountain of more money than he would have against Maskaev in any country. He wanted an easy title win. He wanted an easy tuneup in McCline, but his old body couldn't get him to the race.

[beez721]

He has money. It's ego. He failed at politics and boxing is there. He saw his brother being called the king of the heavyweights and he tried to jump back in out of jealousy. He jumped back in and got injured once again, and pulled out once again. He said over and over that he was taking a tuneup, now no tuneup. He came back to jump right into a title fight, win and then leaves again. And he wasn't calling out Valuev when he came back or Briggs, he wanted the weakest link, old man Maskaev. He could have easily fought Valuev in Germany and made a mountain of more money than he would have against Maskaev in any country. He wanted an easy title win. He wanted an easy tuneup in McCline, but his old body couldn't get him to the race.

this,,,,I dont agree with. he obviously went with the wbc as that was his belt and the belt he was gven the opportunity to get back in one fight

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

this,,,,I dont agree with. he obviously went with the wbc as that was his belt and the belt he was gven the opportunity to get back in one fight

Not exactly. There was a mandatory who went through two eliminators. He wasted months of our time, the fighters time and held up the division. He gave up because of a case he couldn't win and let Peter get his shot. If he wanted to make a statement as far as legacy, then he would have fought another top guy. What happened to "I will only come back if Lennox comes back." He wanted an easy title win. Whoever wins next Saturday, should be fighting Wladimir. Instead, we have to now wait for Vitali to fight the winner, pray he doesnt get injured, and if he does, we then have to wait another six months or so for them to reschedule the fight again?

The WBC title has been held up for over a year because Vitali wanted to skip ahead of the mandatory, Peter. There were two titles with no mandatories and he could have fought for them with the champions making optional defenses.

[beez721]

Not exactly. There was a mandatory who went through two eliminators. He wasted months of our time, the fighters time and held up the division. He gave up because of a case he couldn't win and let Peter get his shot. If he wanted to make a statement as far as legacy, then he would have fought another top guy. What happened to "I will only come back if Lennox comes back." He wanted an easy title win. Whoever wins next Saturday, should be fighting Wladimir. Instead, we have to now wait for Vitali to fight the winner, pray he doesnt get injured, and if he does, we then have to wait another six months or so for them to reschedule the fight again?

The WBC title has been held up for over a year because Vitali wanted to skip ahead of the mandatory, Peter. There were two titles with no mandatories and he could have fought for them with the champions making optional defenses.

what on earth makes you think he'd have been able to fight one of the other champs? it was only the wbc that ridiculously gave him the right to come back and challenge for the title. he had no shot at the other belts

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

what on earth makes you think he'd have been able to fight one of the other champs? it was only the wbc that ridiculously gave him the right to come back and challenge for the title. he had no shot at the other belts

They could have fought him as an optional. WBC was the only organization that was trying to force their champ to fight him instead of the mandatory.

[NachoMan]

I'm no fan of either Klitschko, but I think I'd rather watch a busted up Vitali than a healthy Wlad. I think the writer's argument that Vitali owes it to his brother to stay retired is pretty silly. If Vitali wants to fight, then let him. Even with a bum knee, he's certainly no worse than the rest of the HW field.

The writer seems to think that unifying the belts is so important to identifying the real HW champ. I imagine that most real fans couldn't care less about the alphabet bull****. Even if Wlad unifies, he'll remain relatively anonymous to the general sports fan if he continues to fight the way he has thus far. Nobody cares about the HW division or it champions because there isn't a single dynamic fighter among the entire lot.

[edgarg]

I'm no fan of either Klitschko, but I think I'd rather watch a busted up Vitali than a healthy Wlad. I think the writer's argument that Vitali owes it to his brother to stay retired is pretty silly. If Vitali wants to fight, then let him. Even with a bum knee, he's certainly no worse than the rest of the HW field.

The writer seems to think that unifying the belts is so important to identifying the real HW champ. I imagine that most real fans couldn't care less about the alphabet bull****. Even if Wlad unifies, he'll remain relatively anonymous to the general sports fan if he continues to fight the way he has thus far. Nobody cares about the HW division or it champions because there isn't a single dynamic fighter among the entire lot.

NATCHO MAN- Them's my sentiments exactly. Why the hell do I have to be so explanatory when others can say basically the same thing in a few words. Must be the old teacher in me.

O.K. I'll give it one more "INFAMOUS" try. Using "POP-POP-POP'S words, (sort-of) why the hell should a guy who hasn't been in a ring since maybe March 2007, and in a fight since Nov.2004, go for a giant Champion Valuev, when he has the LEGAL right, given of their OWN WILL by the WBC, to fight the Champion, REGARDLESS of who is the #1 contender. It specifically stated that he would supercede the #1 contender, without interfering with the #1's position. He'd still be # 1 with the right to fight the winner of the Champ, and Klitscko. AND...by the way, if you know anything about BOXING HISTORY....(Hmmm) you'd see maybe hundreds of examples of #1 contenders who either NEVER got the title fight, or had to wait years. What about Marvin Hagler, took over 60 fights before he got his title bout. What about Harold Johnson, Fought Archie Moore 5 times, the first 3 squeezed into a 3-4 month period when he was barely 21. He only got a title shot after YEARS, (and was winning until KO'D in the 13th). Archie would NEVER fight him again,. and gradually was stripped, area by area, until Harold fought Jesse Bowdry to the NBC (I think he was 32) and 2 years later Archie officially retired. . I may be a little out datewise here, it was long ago, and only my (exaggerating) memory.

As for V Klitschko, ONE fight, and he's Champ again.....if he's lucky. Good as he is (or was) I still think he should take at least one tune-up.

And it's BEYOND ******, (not nearly as bad as "infamous) to say that he's jealous of his little brother whom he's nutured like a father. I'M not saying it- THEY BOTH ARE.... Once again, all together now....

"OUR GREATEST DREAM IN LIFE IS FOR US TO BE BOTH CHAMPIONS AT THE SAME TIME".

And....."WHOVEVER OF US WINS A FIGHT IT'S FOR BOTH OF US WINNING". Phew. I HOPE that is understood by those who impute low reasons for a 36 year old star fighter who KO'D EVERYONE he's beaten, in nearly 40 fights, except one. And how much money he has is not my business. He may be endowing a large Charitable Foundation. I'm sure he either has, or will. Several of them. THEY can use the money. How many Foundations has Oscar or "Moneybags rat-tat-tat" endowed, apart from giving a start-up amount to a clinic to have their names on the building, or something like that. Oscar is estimated nearly $400 mill, and his greedy grasp is STILL stretched out in all directions, and no one is complaining like they are about Old Klitschko wanting to fight again. I don't care, and I don't criticise him. It's HIS business not mine.

[edgarg]

AND- "Lest we forget".....V Klitschko has ALWAYS constantly said-since the very first day they came to our notice, that of the two of them, "Wladimir is better, the BEST, and everybody will see". Someone may remember hearing this.