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I have been triung to figure out why JD is called an all time great. His best win is against Jess Willard who only won the title when Jack Johnson threw their fight. Dempey did beat the hell out of him tho, but after that he lost to Tunney twice. who besides Willard did he beat to earn an ATG stamp? He didnt fight Sam Langford or any of the top blacks during his "reign". but yet he is consistently rated as a top 5 HW. i may be far of bases with this. so would someone please educate me?
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i don't put him as a top 5 hw -
fighters back in those days are nothing compared to todays type of fighters, back then they were bums as champions...Comment
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i agree with both of u. but i bet if i started a "list ur top 10 HW of all time" that Dempsey would get a lot of top 5 attention. then u have so called experts(i.e Bert sugar) who would rate him 1 or 2Comment
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Mostly because of his effect on the sport, he was hugely popular and destroyed his often bigger opponents in exciting fashion.
Dempsey beat most of the top fighters of his era aside from Harry Wills who he could be accused of ducking. Sam Langford was already an old man by the time Dempsey arrived on the scene, Dempsey destroyed Fred Fulton who knocked out the old Langford.
The giant Willard who had knocked out Jack Johnson was destroyed in 3, Georges Carpentier was knocked out in 4, Jack Sharkey (who beat Harry Wills) was knocked out in 7, Tommy Gibbons lost to Dempsey by a decision and Firpo who destroyed Willard was knocked out by Dempsey in two.
I'm not sure if I would rate Dempsey as top 5 but maybe top 10, definitely top 15. It all depends on how you like to rank top HW's.
Jack Dempsey HL.
fighters back in those days are nothing compared to todays type of fighters, back then they were bums as champions...
Last edited by TheGreatA; 01-27-2008, 06:01 PM.Comment
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You really can't compare boxers from different eras against each other. The only real way to rank a fighter is how well did he dominate the era in which he boxed in. Using that criteria you have to put Dempsey in the top 10.Comment
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so he fought some big clumsy guys and beat em. he suppsedly ducked one of his biggest threats. and lost twice to a "boxer" in tunney? im guessing his popularity has more to do with boxing being a big time sport in those days and he was the champ. plus the fact that jack johnson was the champ and was black, when Willard "defeated" Johnson the "white" american public wanted a champ they could cheer for. and thats where Dempsey came in. why he didnt fight Wills or Langford was b/c he and his handlers didnt want to lose the title to another black man. as long as there was a white champ america was happy. when joe louis won the belt from max baer he was told told to act a certain way in order to be accepted.Comment
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You should've read my post.
Sam Langford was a nearly 40-year old man when Dempsey arrived on the HW scene and lost to Fred Fulton who Dempsey completely destroyed. Langford said Fulton was going to be the next HW champion.
Harry Wills is the only man who Dempsey didn't fight in that era and Dempsey destroyed Jack Sharkey who beat Harry Wills. But it's true that Dempsey should've fought him, it just never happened, just like many other fights never happened.
When Dempsey fought Tunney he had been inactive for 3 years.
In their rematch Dempsey dropped Tunney for the 'long' count, in his prime Dempsey would've done a lot better against Tunney.
If you want to criticize Dempsey for not fighting Wills, why not criticize Johnson for not giving rematches to McVey and Langford, Langford for not wanting to fight Jim Jeffries, Larry Holmes for not fighting Thomas, Marciano for not fighting Nino Valdes, Foreman for not fighting Quarry, Holmes and Shavers and so on.
There have always been top fighters who never got their title shots.Last edited by TheGreatA; 01-27-2008, 06:37 PM.Comment
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My thoughts are that Dempsey's manager is to blame as well as Dempsey himself, but I put blame on the fighter first since as he has to take control of his career...the blame is on both.Originally posted by TheManchine View Post
Boxing started to get big again (since it was big in the ancient times) with John L., but Dempsey, led by his Manager/Promoter, made boxing World-Wide. He was a true Celeb. His big paydays allowed for future big paydays. His style was perfect for the time, perfect to promote the sport. If anything, his "importance" is key.
For Johnson: it would have been the right thing to do to rematch the top black fighters, but I still give him a great deal of credit for fighting them in the first place (even though he had no choice anyway)...and, he did want a fight with Jeffries while Jeff was still Champion. After Jack won the title, I don't think he wanted to risk losing the belt he had worked so long and hard to get against the top black fighters, for low money. In addition, he took great pleasure in beating the "White Hopes" I expect.
Your other points are very good as well with Foreman (and I would add in Shavers), Marciano, and many others. In addition, it was good to note that Dempsey had been off for 3 years and was not the same mentally because of his new, improved life-style. People look at numbers/stats to much without looking further into the story.
Good postLast edited by Benny Leonard; 01-27-2008, 07:58 PM.Comment
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I actually meant that kericuss should criticize Sam Langford for not fighting Jeffries. Langford said he would take on anyone except Jim Jeffries.Originally posted by Benny Leonard View Post
There were always some fighters who were avoided and didn't get their shot at top fighters and world titles. Jack Johnson, Jess Willard and Gene Tunney didn't want to fight Harry Wills either.
Atleast Dempsey beat the man who beat Harry Wills, Jack Sharkey.Comment
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