How Lewis Broke The Mike Tyson Mystique: Part 1

[THE REED]

Alright guys, thanks for those who took the time to read my article. It is much appreciated.

It is not one of those that is meant to be controversial for the sake of it. In fact I honestly think one of the most controversial claims you could make is that Tyson is a Top Five Heavyweight.

He was intimidated by Holyfield so what would the likes of Frazier (vastly underrated), Liston (vastly underrated, his contention form was brilliant), Foreman (very menacing and underrated in his days), Louis (modern training methods would make him pretty much unbeatable, chin aside) and the rest do to him? Let alone the guys who can jab him, tie him and drop right hands, guys like Holmes, Lewis, Ali, Charles and Walcott.

I actually grew up watching Tyson, I still own all his fights, criticise the piece by all means but I'd dare say that it shows I know my Tyson fights. I simply do not buy him as anything more than an exciting phenomenon who reached a high level early and then fell away even earlier and never regained it. Hardly all time great status, look at Ali, he was rendered inactive, then was defeated, and still came all the way back to his former level of glory.

If you watch his fights there is a clear pattern of Tyson being backed-up, cut, put over and stopped in all his losses. In some of his wins there is evidence of a silent contract in which he is content to hold and maul his way to a points win, that is if the other guy is not petrified.

You could say it is pro-Lewis bias but I just coldly looked at it and came to the conclusion that any version of Tyson is mentally weak for fighting Lewis or, as someone correctly pointed out, Holyfield.

The bias so-called stems from the fact that Tyson is a fighter who is hyped beyond belief but in the cold light of day never turned a big fight, never avenged a loss, was stopped every time he stepped into top class and could not adapt his fighting style, or show ring intelligence beyond his prime. It is less pro-Lewis bias and more a honest appraisal of Mike Tyson. By all means I enjoy his fights. I enjoy the fights of Carl 'The Truth' Williams also but I would not make him out to be more than he is, a problem I feel the Tyson fans have when they talk about their guy.

Thanks for any critical/complementary thoughts, and yes Smoking I've been to school! It was my favourite time of life!

Although everything you said I agree with, and is completely accurate.... I think there are reasons that those things happened... Reasons like Tysons trainer dying, being the only family he had, bein 20 years old with a 100 mill dollars... lack of training, near the beginning of his fall... Obviously in boxing your judged for what you do, and now what you could have done... and Tyson failed as far as longevity, but I dont think it was because, he was never that good to begin with.. I think he was that good to begin with, and could have easily been top 5 HW of all time... but we all know Tyson is far froma competent stable person... and he couldnt control himself, with no family, no trainer, 100 million dollars, at the age of 20... everyone used him, everyone was fake... and he was mentallly unstable... his downfall was set in stone before he ever had a chance IMO

But to say he never had the tools, or what it took to become a top 5 HW of alltime I believe is inaccurate

[MickyHatton]

You have got to be kidding me. Lewis was the unified world heavyweight champion who took on all comers and beat all of them and Tyson was the guy who lost to Williams and McBride. Tyson hadn't looked good since the Ruddock fights.

Tyson himself said he was done after 1990.

Of course he did.

Tyson never looked the same after Douglas, lets be honest. If he was shot at 24 then that's the end of the argument. If fighters like Lewis and most other long reigning champions look after themselves and others like Tyson dont, whats the debate, the article is absolutely correct isn't it?

[TheGreatA]

But Lewis shouldn't be given the credit for breaking down Tyson, Tyson was already broken down by then. I would give the credit for Tyson himself (fired the cornermen who kept him together during fights), Don King for being Don King, Buster Douglas for upsetting him with a brilliant performance no one saw coming, the prison for taking years off his career and Evander Holyfield for upsetting Tyson again after the prison.

Lewis was the finisher. Williams and McBride were beating a dead horse.

[THE REED]

But Lewis shouldn't be given the credit for breaking down Tyson, Tyson was already broken down by then. I would give the credit for Tyson himself (fired the cornermen who kept him together during fights), Don King for being Don King, Buster Douglas for upsetting him with a brilliant performance no one saw coming, the prison for taking years off his career and Evander Holyfield for upsetting Tyson again after the prison.

Lewis was the finisher. Williams and McBride were beating a dead horse.

hard to disagree with that

[Neckodeemus]

Although everything you said I agree with, and is completely accurate.... I think there are reasons that those things happened... Reasons like Tysons trainer dying, being the only family he had, bein 20 years old with a 100 mill dollars... lack of training, near the beginning of his fall... Obviously in boxing your judged for what you do, and now what you could have done... and Tyson failed as far as longevity, but I dont think it was because, he was never that good to begin with.. I think he was that good to begin with, and could have easily been top 5 HW of all time... but we all know Tyson is far froma competent stable person... and he couldnt control himself, with no family, no trainer, 100 million dollars, at the age of 20... everyone used him, everyone was fake... and he was mentallly unstable... his downfall was set in stone before he ever had a chance IMO

But to say he never had the tools, or what it took to become a top 5 HW of alltime I believe is inaccurate

I understand your points but feel that mental stability and strength is a big part of boxing so it counts against Tyson in fights and in legacy.

I think his training situation was not ideal but on the other hand if Rooney was a genius trainer where are his other great fighters? Cus has Tyson fighting a distinct style that required a lot of upper body movement. Once that goes, and we all lose suppleness early into our 20's, you are stuck with a high guard restricting your vision and punching capabilities. Tyson's own style was a young mans one, a very young man at that, and once it went he failed to adapt, perhaps due to not taking on trainers he respected.

Perhaps Atlas was the best trainer for him but he got sacked for having the balls to challenge Mike. I really think Mike's trainers allowed him to grown mentally soft and it did for him outside and inside the ring.

Lewis also had a pretty grim life early on but he ****** it all up and became a very strong person mentally plus fought well despite earning equally as large amounts of money and gaining in age.

If he lost focus because of the money he does not deserve a top spot. That is for the guys who did it year in and year out despite the money they got. But I respect the opinion of those who have Tyson ranked highly. I just feel we overlook genuine hard men like Frazier and Foreman who did not take to biting people when things went the wrong way.

[Neckodeemus]

Of course he did.

Tyson never looked the same after Douglas, lets be honest. If he was shot at 24 then that's the end of the argument. If fighters like Lewis and most other long reigning champions look after themselves and others like Tyson dont, whats the debate, the article is absolutely correct isn't it?

That is pretty much, in a nutshell and better way, what the gist of my position is! Say he is finished at 24 and he does not have longevity. Beyond that he was an average fighter in many respects.

[MickyHatton]

But Lewis shouldn't be given the credit for breaking down Tyson, Tyson was already broken down by then. I would give the credit for Tyson himself (fired the cornermen who kept him together during fights), Don King for being Don King, Buster Douglas for upsetting him with a brilliant performance no one saw coming, the prison for taking years off his career and Evander Holyfield for upsetting Tyson again after the prison.

Lewis was the finisher. Williams and McBride were beating a dead horse.

No arguments there.

I was responding to a post that used Tyson's age as an excuse, Tyson was overrated, that cannot be disputed surely?

Tyson had it all and threw it away.

He was a very good fighter who for a period looked as if he would be unbeatable, that turned out not to be the case, for a while he lived up to the hype although looking back his opponents were not the best but.....therefore factually this article is correct, the tone is slightly lopsided.

[Steak]

The Tyson coming into the Lewis fight was NOT a bad fighter. he actually had quite a few good wins leading up to that match. Not prime, but not bad whatsoever.

[Benny Leonard]

That is pretty much, in a nutshell and better way, what the gist of my position is! Say he is finished at 24 and he does not have longevity. Beyond that he was an average fighter in many respects.

Tyson needed help, while Lewis, not so much, at least not on the level of Mike seemed to need, from what I understand. Although true, Tyson was still very young and was being pushed fast to the top so a good team is required.

Even Ali, for all of his independence he still went to “people” for support, which is also how he got his name, Muhammad Ali (from Clay).

Lewis had one constant in his life, his mother. Yes, sounds kind of corny, but I bet it was key to molding who he was as a person, similar to the way D’Amato had to break down and rebuild Tyson, except, I'm not sure the true relationship between Cus and Mike: was it more business than "family" or was it a mixture??


I posted a while back a video of one of the sports-writer {***ish guy, forget his name} talking about Tyson and he said in the interview Tyson started to hug him and cry, saying "It's not fun anymore...when Cus and Jimmy were around it was fun and not about money, now, it is about money and it isn't fun."


I would say Lewis being placed in the back and having to work his way up helped him in the end.



Prime is when you are Mentally and Physically fit. You can burn out at any age.

For Tyson, to many questions left open because he burnt out to fast.

[-CANE-]

1995-1998 might have been his physical prime but his boxing skills were at their best during 1999-2003.

Not often this happens but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. I respect you and your knowledge and nearly always agree with you but not this time. I think his physical peak was real early on in his career 1992-1994 at that time he was at a great fighting weight and very fast and powerful but technically he wasn't the fighter he became a few years later under steward.
Between late 1995-1998 he was quite a bit heavier but still fast and his boxing skills were at their best and he was so much better technically. After that he was too heavy and slow too be considered in his prime, he may have been a little more technical in terms of boxing knowledge and what he had learnt from steward and his experience but in fighting terms his body was not able to carry out what it had done a few years before. His reflexes were slower, his speed had diminshed slightly along with his stamina and he wasn't able to throw combinations like he used to.

If he had the technical ability he had learnt under steward, combined with his size, speed and power he had in 1992 when destroying Ruddock then that would have been a better Lennox Lewis than we ever saw. It would have been the perfect heavyweight.