Fenech: Pacquiao is past his best ready to be taken?????

[bigsmoothh]

In the ring he's just a boxer. Outside he is SuperPac, champion of the poor and oppressed.

isnt that the story behind every boxer? what makes him so special?

[joepal]

isnt that the story behind every boxer? what makes him so special?

His fights makes the headlines by ALL newspapers in his country, and he is his country's Man of the Year for five years straight. Was Ali even Time's Man of the Year once?

[PrtyBoyDlicious]

I agree to an extent with what he's saying. I'm not sure if he's on his downhill just yet. Barrera can make anyone look bad if he's playing a defensive game for all 12 rds. Manny needs the other fighter to trade with him to make it really exciting. This Barrera did not. On the other hand, I also believe going to 135lbs would be hell for Manny against these bigger opponents. I know a lot would disagree and just want to see Manny go up there to get his ass beat and feel happy about it after his accomplishments at 130lbs, but the fact is, him going up, would be simliar to Morales going up. It just wouldn't be him, and losing up in that weight would be like, I told you so.

u are genius!!!

[We want Floyd]

Fenech: Pacquiao should not move to lightweights
http://www.sportsnut.com.au/entry.php?intid=23487
Boxing legend Jeff Fenech says Manny Pacquiao is making a big mistake if he plans to invade the lightweight division for battles with Juan Diaz, Joel Casamayor and Michael Katsidis.
The three-time world champ, one of world boxing's biggest stars in the late 80s, has already warned Pacquiao that Katsidis will stop him at lightweight.
Now he he says Casamyor and Diaz will also prove too big and strong.
``Manny’s fight with Marco Antonio Barrera was really boring and he looked like a fighter past his best,'' Fenech said.
``He had none of the exciting aura about him that made him such a great fighter.
``If he steps up to fight Katsidis, Manny will get stopped. No doubt.
``Katsidis has the fire of a young Manny and he’s bigger and stronger. Diaz and Casamayor are physically bigger too and Diaz is a little bull, stronger than Manny and constantly aggressive’’
Katsidis (23-0, 20 KOs) has been calling out Pacquiao and Fenech, the former world bantam, super-bantam and featherweight champ, says the Filipino is ready to be taken.
``I have no doubt Katsidis would stop Pacquiao,’’ Fenech said. ``He looks like a fighter on the downhill run.
``Once you get to the lightweights you are competing with guys much physically bigger than a fighter who started out as the flyweight champ. No matter how good yhou are you are giving the opposition too much of a headstart.''


Is this guy serious???

For all those idiots who continue to argue that Diaz's size would not be the major factor as to why I think Diaz would win.

Well, You have a 3-time champ in Fenech putting the bottomline as to why Manny would lose to the top dogs at 135lbs. Sure, there are the intangibles such as a person's drive. but Fenech mentioned the words physically stronger and bigger 3 different times and the other factors are just icing on the cake if PAC were to get beat by any of the top dogs at lightweight. Size is the major difference here folks.

Fenech even added,"that no matter how good you are, you are giving the opposition too much of an advantage"

I agree w/ Fenech, but not 100%. As I've said before, the only way we can all(experts/armchair boxers alike) really tell, is if PAC jumps in with a natural lightweight who's tough and rugged and see how well PAC handles the punches and how much power does PAC bring to 135lbs. Until then, I can't absolutely say PAC doesn't have a prayer agains Diaz, but it's a big jump.......in weight that is, but talent wise, PAC has faced far more talented, smart fighters in JMM, MAB, and EM. Hell ,you can even throw in Ledwaba and Sasakul as being alot more skilled than Twan

[ReadyUp]

I said this a couple weeks ago.

Pac is at the top of the peak right now and about to start making that descent down.

If he moves to lightweight, that will descent will be faster than expected.

[RodBarker]

For all those idiots who continue to argue that Diaz's size would not be the major factor as to why I think Diaz would win.

Well, You have a 3-time champ in Fenech putting the bottom line as to why Manny would lose to the top dogs at 135lbs. Sure, there are the intangibles such as a person's drive. but Fenech mentioned the words physically stronger and bigger 3 different times and the other factors are just icing on the cake if PAC were to get beat by any of the top dogs at lightweight. Size is the major difference here folks.

Fenech even added,"that no matter how good you are, you are giving the opposition too much of an advantage"

I agree w/ Fenech, but not 100%. As I've said before, the only way we can all(experts/armchair boxers alike) really tell, is if PAC jumps in with a natural lightweight who's tough and rugged and see how well PAC handles the punches and how much power does PAC bring to 135lbs. Until then, I can't absolutely say PAC doesn't have a prayer agains Diaz, but it's a big jump.......in weight that is, but talent wise, PAC has faced far more talented, smart fighters in JMM, MAB, and EM. Hell ,you can even throw in Ledwaba and Sasakul as being alot more skilled than Twan

Thats right , boxing is pound for pound , when you start talking weight and weight classes in fighters its a big deal and a big leveler , even with the bigger weights but from welter down its huge , too many people just look at whats right in their face , one guy beating another ,,, gyms and trainers have been playing the weight game for years , you want to build a fighter you do it by fighting faded big names from a lower weight class ,, I know what angle Fenech is coming from ,,, size and weight .

[grayfist]

It's premature. One can't and must not say a fighter is going downhill if one basis one's conclusions on one fight alone.

Was Fenech going downhill when Mario Martinez knocked him down in the 6th round before he won by UD? Did he feel that he was biting more than he was able to handle as he made a bid for a belt in the higher division by way of the WBC SuperFeatherweight eliminator after vacating his WBC Featheweight throne? I guess he did because he announced his retirement shortly after the fight. But Fenech was KD'd by Martinez (who is nowhere near the IBHOF) before winning the contest. Pacquiao only had a relatively less exciting appearance (in the standards of Pacquiao) against Marco (a sure bet as enshrinee in the IBHOF).

Fenech returned to the ring less than one year and two months later and proved he had not been going downhill and was not. On the contrary. He held Azumah Nelson to a draw and convinced so many experts that he still had more than what it takes; so much so that The Ring declared his 8th round TKO loss to Nelson in their second fight, the magazine's "Upset of the Year-1992". Notwithstanding that Fenech was dropped three times, two of the judges scored the fight even until the fateful 8th round stoppage.

Two fights after the defeat to Nelson, Fenech attached the IBF Lightweight championship to his name by stopping Mike Juarez in the 2nd round. It's conceded that the IBF belt at the time did not mean much and winning that over a Mike Juarez isn't something to strut about. It matters even less that Fenech had been stopped earlier by Calvin Grove whose reputation does not include KO power.

Okay. The Jeff Fenech of the late 80s and early '90s was less than the Jeff Fenech of the mid-'80s. But that Fenech incarnation swarmed all over Nelson in their first fight and Nelson was close to having been stopped in the final canto. The draw was very controversial.

All I'm saying is that Fenech appears to have judged himself prematurely when he announced his retirement after the Martinez fight. The possibility is greater that he may have done the same with regard Pacquiao. Reviewing Fenech's record, one clearly sees that he had, at the very least, one great fight left when he first retired, thinking that he was about to be taken after he was dropped by Martinez.

With due respect to a Hall of Fame inductee, I think Pacquiao has, at the very least, still have half a dozen great ones ahead of him.

[We want Floyd]

It's premature. One can't and must not say a fighter is going downhill if one basis one's conclusions on one fight alone.

Was Fenech going downhill when Mario Martinez knocked him down in the 6th round before he won by UD? Did he feel that he was biting more than he was able to handle as he made a bid for a belt in the higher division by way of the WBC SuperFeatherweight eliminator after vacating his WBC Featheweight throne? I guess he did because he announced his retirement shortly after the fight. But Fenech was KD'd by Martinez (who is nowhere near the IBHOF) before winning the contest. Pacquiao only had a relatively less exciting appearance (in the standards of Pacquiao) against Marco (a sure bet as enshrinee in the IBHOF).

Fenech returned to the ring less than one year and two months later and proved he had not been going downhill and was not. On the contrary. He held Azumah Nelson to a draw and convinced so many experts that he still had more than what it takes; so much so that The Ring declared his 8th round TKO loss to Nelson in their second fight, the magazine's "Upset of the Year-1992". Notwithstanding that Fenech was dropped three times, two of the judges scored the fight even until the fateful 8th round stoppage.

Two fights after the defeat to Nelson, Fenech attached the IBF Lightweight championship to his name by stopping Mike Juarez in the 2nd round. It's conceded that the IBF belt at the time did not mean much and winning that over a Mike Juarez isn't something to strut about. It matters even less that Fenech had been stopped earlier by Calvin Grove whose reputation does not include KO power.

Okay. The Jeff Fenech of the late 80s and early '90s was less than the Jeff Fenech of the mid-'80s. But that Fenech incarnation swarmed all over Nelson in their first fight and Nelson was close to having been stopped in the final canto. The draw was very controversial.

All I'm saying is that Fenech appears to have judged himself prematurely when he announced his retirement after the Martinez fight. The possibility is greater that he may have done the same with regard Pacquiao. Reviewing Fenech's record, one clearly sees that he had, at the very least, one great fight left when he first retired, thinking that he was about to be taken after he was dropped by Martinez.

With due respect to a Hall of Fame inductee, I think Pacquiao has, at the very least, still have half a dozen great ones ahead of him.

re: the sentence in bold. yeah, I think so too, more like three for me. Just not at 135lbs though, iffy. I'd still rather have PAC face both Diaz's than Casamayor though. Unless, PAC shows us that he can handle 135lbs in a tune-up against a strong journeyman. Then Twan will need to run for cover(lol)

[grayfist]

re: the sentence in bold. yeah, I think so too, more like three for me. Just not at 135lbs though, iffy. I'd still rather have PAC face both Diaz's than Casamayor though. Unless, PAC shows us that he can handle 135lbs in a tune-up against a strong journeyman. Then Twan will need to run for cover(lol)

Anyone who goes back to the two Ortiz-Elorde fights will have reservations about Pacquiao going up to Lightweight at this time. Juan, like Ortiz, fought at welter/jr.welter before winning the crown at Lightweight. Elorde is acknowledged by many as among the dominant jr. lighweight champions of their respective eras. But, against the much bigger Ortiz...

Pacquiao started his career at Flyweight, while Elorde was a Bantamweight before he tried to wrest (but failed) the World Featherweight crown from Sandy Saddler. He moved on to Jr. Light soon after the Saddler bout.

Anyway, I think Pacquiao should stay at Jr. Light for the next couple of years. Not only does he have good hunting in that division, he shall also be afforded the time to see how his body grows and how much of his power and speed stays with him as his body grows.

Pacquiao is known to have his pride get the better of him. In the second of only two stoppages that he suffered, he had already lost his world championship crown outside the ring when he failed to make weight after several attempts. He neededn't have climbed the ring all drained and pale but he did. By no measurement was he fit to fight. It was a foregone conclusion that a punch to the abs shall do him in and it did; pretty early.

I therefore hope that Pacquiao goes up to Lightweight in a calculated fashion and not allow foolish pride to again dictate his decisions. If he goes there, it should be because his body and skills are able to go there with him.

[AIR_KENG]

I actually agree that Pac is on the downhill slide of his career. Im not saying that all those guys would beat him, but he isnt as good as he once was.

i would say he's better now more than ever in terms of boxing skill but he has lost some of his passion for the sport... he isn't as hungry for recognition as he was when he exchanged leather with MAB, JMM, and EM...