if Roy dominates Tito by TKO/KO...

[Spirit]

I just can't believe how some people actually think Tito can win. This guy was caught by B-Hops team using an illegal hand wrapping technique. After that he KO'd a nobody and Mayorga who was toying with him the first couple of rounds and eventually ran out of gas, due to poor conditioning. After him Wright just toyed with this guy.

If Roy's team checks if this guy has his hands wrapped properly before the fight I don't see any obstacles for Roy. Roy's key weapon will be his ring smarts, it's what he's used to beat Hanshaw and Ajamu.

My prediction on the fight is the first round is going to be boring, both guys will feel eachother out. When Roy discovers how hittable Trinidad is by using the angles he used against Hanshaw, I think he'll block/evade most of Trinidad's punches and counter punch him, Winky-style. By round 4 he'll have Trinidad in trouble, but won't apply enough pressure to finish him off (due to his everlasting fear of being KO'd himself), by round 5-8 he'll figure out Trinidad hasn't been a threat throughout the fight and knock him down (if he hasn't already before that). Whether he decides to finish him off is hard to predict, Roy likes to play with his enemies when he has them in trouble, I think he'll be tempted to though if Trinidad can land one flush after that.

[AntonTheMeh]

I just can't believe how some people actually think Tito can win. This guy was caught by B-Hops team using an illegal hand wrapping technique. After that he KO'd a nobody and Mayorga who was toying with him the first couple of rounds and eventually ran out of gas, due to poor conditioning. After him Wright just toyed with this guy.

If Roy's team checks if this guy has his hands wrapped properly before the fight I don't see any obstacles for Roy. Roy's key weapon will be his ring smarts, it's what he's used to beat Hanshaw and Ajamu.

My prediction on the fight is the first round is going to be boring, both guys will feel eachother out. When Roy discovers how hittable Trinidad is by using the angles he used against Hanshaw, I think he'll block/evade most of Trinidad's punches and counter punch him, Winky-style. By round 4 he'll have Trinidad in trouble, but won't apply enough pressure to finish him off (due to his everlasting fear of being KO'd himself), by round 5-8 he'll figure out Trinidad hasn't been a threat throughout the fight and knock him down (if he hasn't already before that). Whether he decides to finish him off is hard to predict, Roy likes to play with his enemies when he has them in trouble, I think he'll be tempted to though if Trinidad can land one flush after that.

http://www.braggingrightscorner.com/hands.html now shut the **** up.you and all the trinidad haters who bring this **** up.

[AntonTheMeh]

AN OPEN LETTER TO STEVE KIM By Aladdin Freeman and Elisa Harrison

Your October 29th, 2001 article "Cheat-To Trinidad" is malicious and irresponsible; it ranks right up there with the cheapest supermarket tabloids, the ones that use sensationalism and misconceptions to sell issues, regardless of who they vilify.

I must confess that I am aghast as to how you have been able to get away with this piece, unbalanced and irresponsible as it is. You took the words of the three guys who Félix Trinidad beat the worst, and used them to cast a heavy shadow on Trinidad's career, his accomplishments, his pugilistic integrity. In reality, you have done the same for his father, and for every Commission and every inspector they have ever fought under, but more on that in a minute.

Your article states that William Joppy has a strong opinion about "all this", whatever all this is, because there is no proof or evidence of any impropriety on the part of the Trinidad camp. You obviously conducted some sort of interview -or shall we call it a witch hunt- with Joppy, in which he assumes that the reason why he looked like a rubber band man on May 12th, 2001, at the Garden, is because Tito's gloves were "loaded".

You continued the public lynching in cohoots with Fernando Vargas, who based solely on what James Fisher said proceeded to malign his handlers, his own camp; and goes on to justify his starching with a cloak and dagger story, without the benefit of names, dates, or anything specific, solely hear say.

As for David Reid, well, let's just look at his last fight and leave it at that.

I feel that as a responsible journalist you should have gotten both sides of this story, because as you might know, Trinidad didn't demolish all his opponents in the same manner he did Reid, Vargas and Joppy. So, what is the explanation there? The "loaded" gloves were only "loaded" on certain days and only against certain opponents? How illogical and foolish is the concept?

One of your readers e-mailed you, condemning your atrocious article, and your answer to him was even worst than the article. Your response to this reader was, and I am quoting: THANK GOD YOU ARE A NOBODY! Well, this person contacted me quite upset at the way you had responded, and asked if we could help him set the record straight.

[AntonTheMeh]

So, Mr. Kim, on behalf of Taino34652, who is very much SOMEBODY in our book, my feature correspondent Aladdin Freeman and I set out to seek answers, and a better understanding on how a boxer's hands are wrapped. I guess you can call it, doing your homework for you, or better yet, presenting facts instead of fiction.

The general question asked was "how do you wrap your fighters' hands?" This is how the question was answered by some of the game's most reputable and knowledgeable people.


1.- Teddy Atlas

"This is why we need a National Commission because there is no rhyme or reason in regards to some of the rules. Every state allows you to wrap the fighters hands differently. I personally usually use gauze, then 1 roll on tape on each hand for my fighters. More tape doesn't add punching power it's more to protect the fighters hands."


2.- Tommie Brooks

"The most important thing to do when wrapping your fighters hand is to protect them, not for added punching power. How you do this is by establishing a good base. Start with gauze or pre-wrap, then make sure you wrap the wrist first and very tight. I know every state allows different rules when it comes to wrapping but usually you can get away with one and a half rolls per hand but with the big guys you definitely need two rolls for each hand. It also helps if you have a general idea where the breaks occur, like the knuckles, so you can put extra foam or padding for the fighters."


3.- José "Pepe" Correa

Tito Trinidad can punch so god darn hard, you may think he has a brick in his gloves, because that is the way he can kick it. I've heard a lot of garbage about he has this in his gloves, he had that in his gloves....Let me tell you something, whenever there is a championship fight we have inspectors in the dressing rooms that watch us prepare, watch us get our hands wrapped. These are professional people who do nothing but watch you wrap your hands. The only thing that Félix Trinidad had in his gloves fight night against any of those guys he knocked out was hand wraps and KNUCKLES! Real knuckles, not brass knuckles.

Let me tell you something, these people have no ground to stand on. You have a hard punching Puerto Rican that can hit like hell, and they just hate the fact that he can punch like that.

I use all the gauze I have on the hand, to make my fighter the best fist, the hardest fist that I can make, and yes, I am trying to make it as hard as I can, because we are allowed to do that. After wrapping his hands, I take the tape, I do the wrist and part of the hand area, I do not go across the knuckles, no trainer does, you are not allowed to do that, that is against the law.

We are given a certain amount of gauze to wrap our guys' hands. What I do is I start up at the wrist area and I come down, I put as much as I possibly can across the fist area, so he doesn't damage his hands, because we are hitting with his knuckles, so therefore I'm allowed to take one gauze and wrap it the way I want to and put that across his knuckles, I do that with all my fighters and have done that for years.

I use tape that I put between the fingers but I do not put tape across the gauze, you gotta have it at least an inch behind the knuckles. You have tape that goes between the fingers, which has nothing to do with trying to make "a cast", it does not make a cast. Some guys go: Oh, man! Jesus Christ, I love the way that hand is wrapped it looks like you can knock down a wall... Yes, you can, because it's wrapped properly. The problem with trainers today, they don't protect their fighters' hands, I do, I do it in every fight, and most good trainers do.

This thing about Felix Trinidad having his hands wrapped wrong or improperly is a FLAT OUT LIE. You have inspectors in the dressing room, we have to trust those people because they are professionals and anyone who says anything different is ******.


4.- Referee Jorge Alonso

BRC: As a referee I know that you check some of the equipment the boxer wears, do you also check the gloves to see if they are irregular in any way?

JA: We check the gloves, we feel the gloves, but remember when we get the boxer in the ring, he already has his gloves on. In Florida, they have inspectors that supervise the wrapping and approve of the wrapping. What I feel for, when I feel the gloves is to make sure that first of all, the knot is in the back part of the hand, right underneath, where there is no rub, no big knots when they tie the gloves and that the tape covers the knot itself and the tie. I also check that the impact area of the glove is in good condition, that it doesn't have any soft spots where you can't feel the knuckles. In the past, I have eliminated gloves for having been used before, they were very soft and you can feel the boxer's knuckles with your finger; in those cases you don't let those gloves go on to the fight.

As far as the wrap itself, we don't actually see it. In Florida we have inspectors that handle that.


BRC: When you refereed Trinidad vs. Thiam, and based on your many years of experience, did you see, did you detect anything, anything at all that now -looking back on it and based on the grave accusations that have been made- did you detect anything that may now seem irregular to you?

JA: No, looking back, I don't see anything irregular. I checked the gloves, in the ring, and I didn't notice any irregularities as to the way the gloves felt when I checked them, they were tied properly. I didn't see anything improper with the gloves, however I don't know about the hands wrap, but I have a tremendous confidence in the inspectors in Florida. We probably have one of the most experienced team of inspectors in Florida and I say that with a lot of pride. I seriously doubt that they would allow any improprieties as to wrappings in a fight in the state of Florida; and specially the guys here in South Florida they are very, very experienced inspectors.


5. - Marc Ratner

Felix Tito Trinidad has fought here several times against some of the biggest fighters in the world: Oscar de la Hoya, David Reid, Fernando Vargas. He's always had opponent's corner people watching him wrap, as well as my inspectors. We have never detected anything illegal.


6. - Alton Merkerson

First of all, the most important thing when wrapping hands is to protect three areas of the hand: back of the hand, the wrist and the thumb. The knuckles you put pad over to protect, so you won't have direct contact. My philosophy is in reference to the tape, in reference to the Commissioner, they give you a certain amount of gauze, some people say ten yards, twelve yards, even up to fifteen yards, and most people say eight feet of tape, one inch tape, as long as it's not going across the knuckles.

Personally I don't feel that all the gauze and tape in the world you can use can add force to your blow, what it really does is protect your hands as long as you don't have tape over the top of your knuckles, but that is a rule by all Commissions all over the world, that you don't put tape over the knuckles. Most Europeans and Hispanics for some reason do not put as much gauze on the hands as most Americans do and they use excessive amount of tape, and it really makes it like a cast and what people are saying that the gloves, that the hand wraps are loaded is because it's so much tape, it actually feels like a cast. So that won't allow any of your bones in your hands to move; any big puncher would like his hands wrap that way, and it's safety for them, but most people think it adds more power to the blow, IT DOESN'T, but it gives you confidence and you feel better about throwing a punch as hard as you can with your hands wrapped like that because you have less chance of injuring your hand.

[AntonTheMeh]

BRC: Based on your vast experience, have you ever felt uncomfortable about the officials appointed by the Boxing Commissioners, the officials that are responsible for watching the trainers wrap their fighters' hands? Have you ever felt that irregularities have taken place?

AM: I feel comfortable with them but I do like one of my representatives to be present, because you don't know you might, in a world championship fight, you know boxing is corrupt, you don't know who favors who or who is biased and they might let them get away with something. So, that's the reason why you want to have a representative from your camp in that other person's locker room when they wrap hands.

Every fighter and every Commissioner should know exactly how much gauze, how much tape and how a hand should be wrapped. So, when you deviate from that, you complain about it, the biggest problem that most people have with the Hispanic wrap and even Europeans is that they use excessive amounts of tape to secure the hand and make it like a cast. So, the rule of thumb is that in my camp I do have one of my people observe, even though the Commissioner is there...I'm not saying that he doesn't know his job, but I rather have one of my people there also.

BRC: Let me run this scenario by you. Our feature correspondent, Aladdin Freeman, interviewed Bernard Hopkins shortly after his resounding victory over Trinidad. Hopkins said and this is a direct quote: "Trinidad had only skin and then tape on his hands, no gauze, and it also looked like he was wearing casts..."

AM: State of Florida Rules and Regulations state that 105-154 pounds can use 10 yds of gauze; they don't care how they put it on the hands, anything over 154 pounds can use 12 yds of gauze, they don't care how you put it on. When you get to the tape this State allows you to use 8 foot of tape, and that is not very much; one roll of tape is ten yards, usually a person can wrap with 3/4 to 1 roll of tape, and there is nothing said and no tape over the knuckles, you have to be an inch behind the back of the knuckles. The only tape you can use and gauze you can use that is affiliated with the knuckles is going between them, and that is just to secure the tape so it won't peel back. That's cut and dry, and those are the rules and regulations.


BRC: In your opinion, would the amount of gauze and or tape used in a legal way, as you have stated it to me...

AM: (Jumping right in...) I don't think it would add any more force to the blow, I think it is a safety precaution for the person's hands, to keep them from injuring their hands. I don't have any problem with it as a trainer.


7. - Jeff Mayweather

Basically, for the most part, the first thing I do is make a pad to protect the knuckles, because that is where most of the impact is going to come from. When you hit another fighter, the knuckles is where the force is going to come from. So, I make a large pad for my fighters with gauze and after that I use a total of five gauze, two for the wrap and one for the padding which is very important to protect the fighter's hands and then I use a large amount of tape that I wrap the boxer's hands with the tape after the wrap is done, you know, make sure that their hands feel secure, not too tight and then I make strips of tape, not to build a cast, that's probably what they are talking about in reference to Tito Trinidad because each trainer has a specific amount of tape that they like to use.

But actually, I don't feel that wrapping a hand can dictate the impact of a punch. The fighter can punch or the fighter can't punch. All the tape does is protect the fighter's hands, it doesn't make the fighter a better puncher, and in that sense I don't feel...only thing you can do is if you put metal or if you do something like what Panama Lewis did, with the padding of the gloves, that's something totally different.

But we are talking about when you wrap a guy's hand the commission should be there to mandate the amount of tape you are going to wrap around the hand. The tape is there basically to protect the fighter's hands. Once you use the gauze and once you start taping, there is no longer any gauze.

BRC: Does each camp get same exact amount of gauze and tape?

JM: That, in that sense is not really true because each trainer, while they have a standard by which you are only allowed to use so much gauze, each trainer has his own amount of gauze that he brings in and of course some can get away with using more, some can get away with using less. Some fighters like using even less, and the trainer himself has to bring the gauze, not necessarily the commissioner or the state. In that sense u have a little independence to use it freely, but the one thing that is true in every state is that there is an appointed representative from the commission of that state, to watch, to watch as the hands are being wrapped.

BRC: In your experience, both as a fighter and now as a trainer, your years in boxing, have you ever felt that you could not trust the person appointed by the commission to observe the wrapping of the opponent's hands? Have you ever felt uncomfortable in any sense with that?

JM: In my own experience, no. I feel that the only thing you can really do is if you take the padding out of the gloves, or you could use excessive amounts of tape, but there are rules and regulations that stipulate that you can only use one roll of tape. Of course, some of the Commission's people are a bit more lenient because it is for the protection of the fighter, but they know when...I mean, a lot of the Commission's people are ex-fighters, they might be a little bit lenient but they won't allow anyone to go berserk with the amount of tape that they are using. And plus, you can't even really protect the knuckles, only way you can protect the knuckles is with padding, you can't tape the knuckles.


BRC: Based on what you have explained to me, is it a fair statement to say that a bit more gauze, a bit less gauze, it's not going to affect the impact of the punch?

JM: That's pretty much right. The gauze has nothing to do with it, like I said the gauze is basically there to protect the fighters. Some fighters don't like too much gauze, they like to feel they can almost feel their hands when they hit a person. Some fighters are like that, they don't care about gauze. Gauze is to protect the hands, the only thing that changes anything is the amount of tape that you use, that may help the impact a little bit but at the same time, you are only protecting the fighters hands, it doesn't make you a better puncher.

BRC: If one of your fighters got knocked out badly and came to you and said, wow! I had never been hit like that before, that guy punches funny. Would your immediate response be that the opponent's gloves were loaded?

[AntonTheMeh]

JM: No, I would probably say you have never been in there with a guy that punches that hard. One thing is that Felix Trinidad is a proven puncher, I mean he has proven that throughout his whole entire career, as a welterweight, at 154...Maybe these guys have never been in with a guy that punches like Trinidad on a consistent basis, and that is my honest feeling. I don't think the hands wrap would have made any difference in the Hopkins fight, Hopkins had his number that night. I think Trinidad is a devastating puncher no matter what kind of wrap he's got on.


BRC: I have one last question for you... You were a fighter, you are now a trainer, you come from a family of good fighters...Do you feel that it's fair to write an article questioning a guy's integrity, the accomplishments of his career, questioning the commissions that he has fought under based on the comments of three guys that got knocked out by this one person?

JM: If those guys would have won, you would have no excuses. Excuses come from losers. I don't care how you win, even if you don't win and you win, as is the case sometimes, you hear no complaints. So when a guy loses he has to find excuses, you know, like how did this guy beat me, or how did this guy devastated me, or whatever the case might be. Trinidad had no excuses, he just lost to Bernard and he took it like a man. Like I said, losers have excuses, winners don't.



On that note, here is Aladdin Freeman's closing statement:

I think when you come out with a story like Mr. Kim did, you must put a lot of thought into what you are writing because accusing Trinidad's people of doing something illegal when there isn't really any uniform rule about hand wrapping isn't fair to the fighter or his people. It is also a great disservice to Trinidad and everyone he's fought along the way, trying to tarnish his forty straight wins by saying he's been cheating this whole time.

I've now heard three different accounts of what happened. First was Bernard Hopkins, who was lead to believe that all Trinidad had was tape on his hands, Hopkins told me this first hand (no pun intended). The next thing I heard was that Trinidad used layers and layers of tape and gauze on his hands and finally I read and heard Tito used a foam around his knuckles.

Furthermore, in trying to discredit Trinidad and his handlers Mr. Kim only interviewed three of his last four opponents, all of which gave Tito his props after the fight was over, then after this issue came up, decided to join in and come out with their own "allegations". Why 'weren't Mamadou Thiam, Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whitaker and Hugo Pineda questioned? Was it because all except Pineda finished on their feet?

If a fighter is in forty fights, more than half championship fights where the supervision is more severe, don't you think if the guy is cheating or loading his hands, that he'd have been caught by now? My last question is, almost after every fight Trinidad is the first guy to take his gloves off, but keeps his tape on.

If he and his father were trying to cheat don't you think he'd cut the tape and everything off?

[Del Coqui]

where would this put him in the 168-175 lbs picture?...is he up there yet with B-Hop & winner of Calzaghe/Kessler?...he did say 4 more and he's out....even tho' in my heart I feel Roy's best days are behind him and should hang em' up, I also believe he still has what it takes to be top 5 pfp....and if he does dominate tito, what should be his next move?

I think he already is, in that division there aren't many big names yet but seems to be building up, a win over RJJ is a win over RJJ. Wonder were would Tito be if he beats RJJ.

[Undefeated]

I just can't believe how some people actually think Tito can win. This guy was caught by B-Hops team using an illegal hand wrapping technique. After that he KO'd a nobody and Mayorga who was toying with him the first couple of rounds and eventually ran out of gas, due to poor conditioning. After him Wright just toyed with this guy.

If Roy's team checks if this guy has his hands wrapped properly before the fight I don't see any obstacles for Roy. Roy's key weapon will be his ring smarts, it's what he's used to beat Hanshaw and Ajamu.

My prediction on the fight is the first round is going to be boring, both guys will feel eachother out. When Roy discovers how hittable Trinidad is by using the angles he used against Hanshaw, I think he'll block/evade most of Trinidad's punches and counter punch him, Winky-style. By round 4 he'll have Trinidad in trouble, but won't apply enough pressure to finish him off (due to his everlasting fear of being KO'd himself), by round 5-8 he'll figure out Trinidad hasn't been a threat throughout the fight and knock him down (if he hasn't already before that). Whether he decides to finish him off is hard to predict, Roy likes to play with his enemies when he has them in trouble, I think he'll be tempted to though if Trinidad can land one flush after that.

Just by reading the first two sentences, the word "ignorance" came to my head.

Illegal wrapping technique? You gotta be kidding me. You still on that ****?!

Roy has a problem. Tito ain't no Anthony Hanshaw. Just because Tito is moving up in weight people think he gonna get knocked down in like 4 rounds. Same **** people thought when B-hop moved up to fight Tarver.

Ya people are deluded. Ya need to wake the **** up and realize that Tito and Roy have the same chance. When was the last time Roy won by KO? ok then. He is not the same fighter no more.

[DIOS DOMINICANO]

The Jones-Trinidad fight depresses me. I will be depressed if either guy loses. At various points, I loved both these guys. Tito more.

But Roy strung together a couple of late-career victories, and should have retired on that.

[AntonTheMeh]

The Jones-Trinidad fight depresses me. I will be depressed if either guy loses. At various points, I loved both these guys. Tito more.

But Roy strung together a couple of late-career victories, and should have retired on that.

same with me even if i am puerto rican,my reasons for wanting tito to win are basically for him to redeem his legacy,i don't think roy can,even though he's in my top ten of all time.