How to mount successfull body attack (my theories)

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  • El Jesus
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    #1

    How to mount successfull body attack (my theories)

    With all the talk of Cotto Mosley and Mayweather Hatton, in both instances you have a speed guy and a hardened slugger looking to body snatch. However the differences between the two fights are pretty major in alot of ways when you look beyond just the paper matchup.

    A good body attack needs a couple things, for one, you need to be inside, period, you need to be in range to throw that ****. For two, you need good footwork and the ability to work well in and out of clinches. One last thing you need..someone standing in front of you giving you enough body to make it happen.

    Watching Cotto/Judah i have noticed something, when judah was moving in and out throwing combinations before the low blow fiasco, he had cotto in control and was doing what he wanted to do in the first couple rounds even stunning him early. However, In about round 4 or 5 Judah started doing what i mentioned above, giving him body. By that i mean standing there making himself a target. At this point Judah crumbled.

    Also, you guys remember the Quintana fight? Quintana never had his footing in that fight and was easily demolished, a fight i lose 20 dollars on. Quintana gave cotto nothing to fear, barely any counters, nothing to give cotto anything to think about and got his ass destroyed in vicious fashion.

    One thing i notice about Cotto is that if you continue throwing punches and flurries, he takes them, but he keeps coming, however hes not invincible, if Mosley can keep up the flurries and throw with authority, Cotto may not answer the 12th round. But if he stands dormant and his defensive lapses allow Cotto to subdue him with his body attack, Mosley is in trouble just like Judah was, his speed will dissapear and he will crumble, Cotto is too strong.

    Now ill touch on another fight, one i watched for about the millionth time. Chavez vs Whitaker. That fight stands out in my mind as to what happens to a body puncher when a defensive GENIUS is at the helm. Whitaker moved, stood toe to toe, countered and left Chavez confused. Chavez is easily a top 5, hell top 3 body puncher of all time, and had no idea how to solve the whitaker puzzle. This is because whitaker DID NOT give Chavez a target, he moved laterally, used his footwork and countered, there was little chavez could do but wail and chase.

    I use this example because some questions have come up about mayweathers "body" and what happens when he gets hit. I will tell you, Mayweather doesnt give you a whole lot of anything. He forces you to lunge at him and create openings, the problem is, you get hit on the way in. Despite what alot of you think, getting his ACCURATELY over and over again hurts, and despite what you guys may think, Floyd is a decent puncher, especially someone his own size and has the potential KO anyone from 140 down since thats close to his own natural weight. Mayweather uses his shoulder and gives you a look that is very hard to solve, mostly because while your trying to solve it, your getting hit in the ****in face.

    Hatton will likely attempt to chase mayweather, and in the midst of that, when mayweather stands toe to toe, and gives him a different look, he will have to solve that too, because missing punches is discouraging and annoying, and if the ref is someone who DOES NOT allow hatton to hold and hold and hold, Hatton will be forced to use angles and create openings, and we all know against mayweather, this is easier said than done. This is why the Hatton fight has made Mayweather a huge favorite, we have seen him against Jesus Chavez and JLC twice, we have seen him in pressure fights, the difference is, this is 2007, not 2002, hes smarter, stronger and his Boxing IQ is absolutely brilliant, and you need more than heart and will to beat him, you need a strategy that will work, and given the problems mayweather presents, its very hard to rule against him.

    Thats my opinion anyhow.
  • Easton Assassin
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    #2
    Originally posted by Black Jesus
    With all the talk of Cotto Mosley and Mayweather Hatton, in both instances you have a speed guy and a hardened slugger looking to body snatch. However the differences between the two fights are pretty major in alot of ways when you look beyond just the paper matchup.

    A good body attack needs a couple things, for one, you need to be inside, period, you need to be in range to throw that ****. For two, you need good footwork and the ability to work well in and out of clinches. One last thing you need..someone standing in front of you giving you enough body to make it happen.

    Watching Cotto/Judah i have noticed something, when judah was moving in and out throwing combinations before the low blow fiasco, he had cotto in control and was doing what he wanted to do in the first couple rounds even stunning him early. However, In about round 4 or 5 Judah started doing what i mentioned above, giving him body. By that i mean standing there making himself a target. At this point Judah crumbled.

    Also, you guys remember the Quintana fight? Quintana never had his footing in that fight and was easily demolished, a fight i lose 20 dollars on. Quintana gave cotto nothing to fear, barely any counters, nothing to give cotto anything to think about and got his ass destroyed in vicious fashion.

    One thing i notice about Cotto is that if you continue throwing punches and flurries, he takes them, but he keeps coming, however hes not invincible, if Mosley can keep up the flurries and throw with authority, Cotto may not answer the 12th round. But if he stands dormant and his defensive lapses allow Cotto to subdue him with his body attack, Mosley is in trouble just like Judah was, his speed will dissapear and he will crumble, Cotto is too strong.

    Now ill touch on another fight, one i watched for about the millionth time. Chavez vs Whitaker. That fight stands out in my mind as to what happens to a body puncher when a defensive GENIUS is at the helm. Whitaker moved, stood toe to toe, countered and left Chavez confused. Chavez is easily a top 5, hell top 3 body puncher of all time, and had no idea how to solve the whitaker puzzle. This is because whitaker DID NOT give Chavez a target, he moved laterally, used his footwork and countered, there was little chavez could do but wail and chase.

    I use this example because some questions have come up about mayweathers "body" and what happens when he gets hit. I will tell you, Mayweather doesnt give you a whole lot of anything. He forces you to lunge at him and create openings, the problem is, you get hit on the way in. Despite what alot of you think, getting his ACCURATELY over and over again hurts, and despite what you guys may think, Floyd is a decent puncher, especially someone his own size and has the potential KO anyone from 140 down since thats close to his own natural weight. Mayweather uses his shoulder and gives you a look that is very hard to solve, mostly because while your trying to solve it, your getting hit in the ****in face.

    Hatton will likely attempt to chase mayweather, and in the midst of that, when mayweather stands toe to toe, and gives him a different look, he will have to solve that too, because missing punches is discouraging and annoying, and if the ref is someone who DOES NOT allow hatton to hold and hold and hold, Hatton will be forced to use angles and create openings, and we all know against mayweather, this is easier said than done. This is why the Hatton fight has made Mayweather a huge favorite, we have seen him against Jesus Chavez and JLC twice, we have seen him in pressure fights, the difference is, this is 2007, not 2002, hes smarter, stronger and his Boxing IQ is absolutely brilliant, and you need more than heart and will to beat him, you need a strategy that will work, and given the problems mayweather presents, its very hard to rule against him.

    Thats my opinion anyhow.
    Well, i'm sure you will get plenty of praise from the rest of the nutlickers, so i'll start of by saying one thing!


    Bull****-----Mayweather is no sweet pea!


    More to the point- Mayweather hasn't faced an aggressive, accurate, body punching fighter like Hatton in his entire career-No, castillo in not on par!


    Hattontko10 or sooner!

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    • El Jesus
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      #3
      Originally posted by Easton Assassin
      Well, i'm sure you will get plenty of praise from the rest of the nutlickers, so i'll start of by saying one thing!


      Bull****-----Mayweather is no sweet pea!


      More to the point- Mayweather hasn't faced an aggressive, accurate, body punching fighter like Hatton in his entire career-No, castillo in not on par!


      Hattontko10 or sooner!
      Your right, Mayweather isnt Sweetpea, hes actually a more complete fighter, and there was a thread on it i think last week, and yes, i definately think mayweather is a bit better than Sweetpea, or at the very least, the second coming. Mayweather has more power than Whitaker and i think personally thats what gives him the edge. But defensively, Counterpunching all the things Whitaker did, Mayweather can do.

      If im a nutlicker for giving a technical analysis on what may or may not happen, and you dispel it with BULL****, HATTON TKO 10, if im "nutlicking" then what are you doing?

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      • Amir K Shareef
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        #4
        Originally posted by Black Jesus
        Your right, Mayweather isnt Sweetpea, hes actually a more complete fighter, and there was a thread on it i think last week, and yes, i definately think mayweather is a bit better than Sweetpea, or at the very least, the second coming. Mayweather has more power than Whitaker and i think personally thats what gives him the edge. But defensively, Counterpunching all the things Whitaker did, Mayweather can do.

        If im a nutlicker for giving a technical analysis on what may or may not happen, and you dispel it with BULL****, HATTON TKO 10, if im "nutlicking" then what are you doing?
        **** Ricky hatton is tea baggin that Niigga

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        • wmute
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          #5
          Originally posted by Black Jesus
          With all the talk of Cotto Mosley and Mayweather Hatton, in both instances you have a speed guy and a hardened slugger looking to body snatch. However the differences between the two fights are pretty major in alot of ways when you look beyond just the paper matchup.

          A good body attack needs a couple things, for one, you need to be inside, period, you need to be in range to throw that ****. For two, you need good footwork and the ability to work well in and out of clinches. One last thing you need..someone standing in front of you giving you enough body to make it happen.

          Watching Cotto/Judah i have noticed something, when judah was moving in and out throwing combinations before the low blow fiasco, he had cotto in control and was doing what he wanted to do in the first couple rounds even stunning him early. However, In about round 4 or 5 Judah started doing what i mentioned above, giving him body. By that i mean standing there making himself a target. At this point Judah crumbled.

          Also, you guys remember the Quintana fight? Quintana never had his footing in that fight and was easily demolished, a fight i lose 20 dollars on. Quintana gave cotto nothing to fear, barely any counters, nothing to give cotto anything to think about and got his ass destroyed in vicious fashion.

          One thing i notice about Cotto is that if you continue throwing punches and flurries, he takes them, but he keeps coming, however hes not invincible, if Mosley can keep up the flurries and throw with authority, Cotto may not answer the 12th round. But if he stands dormant and his defensive lapses allow Cotto to subdue him with his body attack, Mosley is in trouble just like Judah was, his speed will dissapear and he will crumble, Cotto is too strong.

          Now ill touch on another fight, one i watched for about the millionth time. Chavez vs Whitaker. That fight stands out in my mind as to what happens to a body puncher when a defensive GENIUS is at the helm. Whitaker moved, stood toe to toe, countered and left Chavez confused. Chavez is easily a top 5, hell top 3 body puncher of all time, and had no idea how to solve the whitaker puzzle. This is because whitaker DID NOT give Chavez a target, he moved laterally, used his footwork and countered, there was little chavez could do but wail and chase.

          I use this example because some questions have come up about mayweathers "body" and what happens when he gets hit. I will tell you, Mayweather doesnt give you a whole lot of anything. He forces you to lunge at him and create openings, the problem is, you get hit on the way in. Despite what alot of you think, getting his ACCURATELY over and over again hurts, and despite what you guys may think, Floyd is a decent puncher, especially someone his own size and has the potential KO anyone from 140 down since thats close to his own natural weight. Mayweather uses his shoulder and gives you a look that is very hard to solve, mostly because while your trying to solve it, your getting hit in the ****in face.

          Hatton will likely attempt to chase mayweather, and in the midst of that, when mayweather stands toe to toe, and gives him a different look, he will have to solve that too, because missing punches is discouraging and annoying, and if the ref is someone who DOES NOT allow hatton to hold and hold and hold, Hatton will be forced to use angles and create openings, and we all know against mayweather, this is easier said than done. This is why the Hatton fight has made Mayweather a huge favorite, we have seen him against Jesus Chavez and JLC twice, we have seen him in pressure fights, the difference is, this is 2007, not 2002, hes smarter, stronger and his Boxing IQ is absolutely brilliant, and you need more than heart and will to beat him, you need a strategy that will work, and given the problems mayweather presents, its very hard to rule against him.

          Thats my opinion anyhow.
          Hey long time no see!

          I pretty much agree on Cotto-Mosley. Let me underline that Cotto chin might go, and that Mosley too often forgets about defense.

          On the other fight I think you are seeing it too easy for Mayweather. Hatton brings pressure (we all figured that out by now), but he also bring speed and angles. In that (and maybe only in that) he is even better than JCC in putting a boxer through hell. On the other hand Mayweather is offensively better than Pea. So I think that this fight will have more fireworks than Pea-JCC. I see Hatton getting bodyblows in a number of time, but I also think Floyd accept that he will have to stand his ground or lose the decision. He will pound Hatton mercilessly, and Hatton will have to dig deep in his heart. The exciting thing is that I think Hatton has enough to bring to the table to make Floyd dig deep. I expect Floyd to get hit more than ever, and pretty hard too. I also expect him to show what he is made of.
          I dont buy all the haters' talk, he is not a 24 yo mike tyson who will crumble under adversity, he has been a pro for 10+ years now, fought against all styles, against all sizes, against injury. He is a great fighter and he is taking the biggest test of his career. May the best win.

          Like I typed many times before. I love PBF in the ring, I love Ricky out of the ring. This is a win-win for me. The only outcomes I would not like are robberies or Hatton getting cut or Mayweather injuring his hands.

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          • El Jesus
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            #6
            Originally posted by wmute
            Hey long time no see!

            I pretty much agree on Cotto-Mosley. Let me underline that Cotto chin might go, and that Mosley too often forgets about defense.

            On the other fight I think you are seeing it too easy for Mayweather. Hatton brings pressure (we all figured that out by now), but he also bring speed and angles. In that (and maybe only in that) he is even better than JCC in putting a boxer through hell. On the other hand Mayweather is offensively better than Pea. So I think that this fight will have more fireworks than Pea-JCC. I see Hatton getting bodyblows in a number of time, but I also think Floyd accept that he will have to stand his ground or lose the decision. He will pound Hatton mercilessly, and Hatton will have to dig deep in his heart. The exciting thing is that I think Hatton has enough to bring to the table to make Floyd dig deep. I expect Floyd to get hit more than ever, and pretty hard too. I also expect him to show what he is made of.
            I dont buy all the haters' talk, he is not a 24 yo mike tyson who will crumble under adversity, he has been a pro for 10+ years now, fought against all styles, against all sizes, against injury. He is a great fighter and he is taking the biggest test of his career. May the best win.

            Like I typed many times before. I love PBF in the ring, I love Ricky out of the ring. This is a win-win for me. The only outcomes I would not like are robberies or Hatton getting cut or Mayweather injuring his hands.

            I know it seems like im making it easy for mayweather, but hatton has a chance, i thought tarver had no chance in the 2nd fight with roy, and i know it may seem funny, but after the roy fight, i was never the same in terms of sports. I knew then anything could happen at anytime, no man is untouchable you know? I was stating why its going to be a big task for Hatton, but you know he does have a chance.

            I was a roy jones fan like you wouldnt understand, it was worse than tyson douglas because we never saw it coming, with tyson from round 1 on you knew he something was wrong, but with roy, seeing him hit the canvas changed boxing for me permenently.

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            • Easton Assassin
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              #7
              Originally posted by Black Jesus
              Your right, Mayweather isnt Sweetpea, hes actually a more complete fighter, and there was a thread on it i think last week, and yes, i definately think mayweather is a bit better than Sweetpea, or at the very least, the second coming. Mayweather has more power than Whitaker and i think personally thats what gives him the edge. But defensively, Counterpunching all the things Whitaker did, Mayweather can do.

              If im a nutlicker for giving a technical analysis on what may or may not happen, and you dispel it with BULL****, HATTON TKO 10, if im "nutlicking" then what are you doing?

              first let me say this, Yes, It was a good technical analysis IF...


              You BELIEVE Mayweather to be superior to Pea


              You BELIEVE Chavez to be the same type of fighter that Hatton is.


              You BELIEVE Floyd has power.

              You BELIEVE Hatton won't hit Mayweather cleanly.



              Then yes, it's good, But it's also very slanted. I could write a very technical Analysis about the history of the brawler breaking down the boxer and slant it just as much-**** i have, but that would be the same thing you have done here.


              Try explaining what each side needs to do to win next time. When you focus on just one fighter it's obvious you are leaning towards or against that fighter.


              The thread is a great read, but not accurate in my opinion!
              Last edited by Easton Assassin; 10-04-2007, 08:36 AM.

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              • Kobe Bryant
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                #8
                That wasn't right to read his whole analogy and reply with he's a nutlicker, It was well thought out and a good read. I agree with the most part.

                Anyway as far as Cotto. This will be the strongest opponent he has ever faced. It's gonna be hard to breakdown a guy who has beanged with bigger guys for the majority of the second half of his career. Shane is a bug guy. And the difference will be that Cotto won't be able to push him backward constantly the whole fight.

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                • kayjay
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                  #9
                  This is a different fight from Whitaker-Chavez. If it were to go like that Hatton might win. Chavez landed a lot of body punches. Whitaker to his credit landed everything and more.

                  Cotto-Judah is different because it was a matter of physical dominance. It's not that Judah got a way from his plan, he had no chance really. He looked good in MOMENTS, and you can't abvstract those moments from the bigger picture. he was in with a better all around fighter.

                  Floyd is trickier to hit than Whitaker, which is saying something. But Hatton doesn't need to land all day. Floyd turns his body enough that a liver shot isn't out of the question if Hatton distracts PBF and figures out the timing.

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                  • Knicksman20
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Easton Assassin
                    first let me say this, Yes, It was a good technical analysis IF...


                    You BELIEVE Mayweather to be superior to Pea


                    You BELIEVE Chavez to be the same type of fighter that Hatton is.


                    You BELIEVE Floyd has power.

                    You BELIEVE Hatton won't hit Mayweather cleanly.



                    Then yes, it's good, But it's also very slanted. I could write a very technical Analysis about the history of the brawler breaking down the boxer and slant it just as much-**** i have, but that would be the same thing you have done here.


                    Try explaining what each side needs to do to win next time. When you focus on just one fighter it's obvious you are leaning towards or against that fighter.


                    The thread is a great read, but not accurate in my opinion!
                    Mayweather is not as far as you think behind Pea first of all but he still has years left on his career so we shall see. Second, Hatton wishes he was HALF the fighter JCC was who was by far more technical & a better pressure fighter than Hatton ever will be. Your blind hate of Mayweather makes your opinion hold no weight because you can't be objective on him.

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