Styles DON'T make fights

**TyrantT316** · 08-23-2007, 07:03 PM

who says people only go based on whether a fighter is slick or a brawler...

no one is saying Tua would have beaten Ali just because he fights low with a big left hook and Ali struggled with Smokin' Joe

**Zerwas1** · 08-23-2007, 07:04 PM

Styles don't make fights
Styles have an influence on the fight, thats all. It also depends how good a fighter is at adjusting.

**Orange Sneakers** · 08-23-2007, 07:22 PM

Pure boxer - Gene Tunney, Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali, Herol Graham, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather

Slugger - Stanley Ketchel, Max Baer, Rocky Graziano, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Nigel Benn

Swarmer - Harry Greb, Henry Armstrong, Jake LaMotta, Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier, Ricky Hatton

When two long-range boxers meet the bout often turns into a strategic chess match, which can be quite boring to the casual boxing fan. Two sluggers going at it make for a far more entertaining, crowd pleasing affair. But when fighters of opposing styles meet, typically, but not always, Boxers beat Sluggers, Sluggers beat Swarmers, and Swarmers beat Boxers

It depends on the level of skill each man possesses as to how any bout will turn out, but the contrast in styles does offer a distinct advantage or dis-advantage. It is much like the "rock, scissors, paper" scheme. One style is better than another against a specific type of opponent, but weaker against the other

When fighters of a similar level of skill meet, all other factors being about equal, the styles of the particular fighters may indicate the outcome of a given match-up. Boxers generally beat sluggers because they are quicker, and have better defense and mobility. Here are some examples of "boxers beat sluggers": Gene Tunney W10 Jack Dempsey, Cassius Clay TKO7 Sonny Liston, Jimmy Young W12 George Foreman, Michael Watson TKO6 Nigel Benn, Buster Douglas KO10 Mike Tyson, and Ivan Robinson W10 Arturo Gatti

Swarmers generally beat boxers because of the contrast in styles. Boxers prefer to maneuver at long range while a swarmer crowds him, smothering his punches as he forces his way inside where the boxer is less comfortable. Examples of swarmers beating boxers are Harry Greb W15 Gene Tunney (Tunney won 4 of 5 but he was bigger and one of those wins was controversial), Marciano W15, KO8 Ezzard Charles, Jake LaMotta W10 Robinson (Jake lost 5 of 6 but Robinson far superior - LaMotta's style gave Robinson trouble though), Joe Frazier W15 Muhammad Ali (Ali wins 2 of 3 but all tough fights), and Phillip Holliday W12 Ivan Robinson. Swarmers often give boxers trouble even when they are nowhere near the same class, such as Troy Dorsey fighting a close decision with Kevin Kelley or Carmen Basilio beating Ray Robinson W15

Sluggers usually beat Swarmers since they are harder punchers and their opponents stand right in front of them. Best examples of this; Sonny Liston KO1 and KO1 Floyd Patterson, George Foreman TKO2 and TKO5 Joe Frazier. Would Manny Pacquiao beat Naseem Hamed? Probably not

The fourth style is the "boxer-puncher". He possesses many of the qualities of the boxer; hand speed, often an outstanding jab, combination and/or counter-punching skills, better defense and accuracy than a slugger, while possessing slugger type power. In general the boxer-puncher lacks the mobility and defensive expertise of the pure boxer

Boxer-puncher - Joe Gans, Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Alexis Arguello, Tommy Hearns, Felix Trinidad, Erik Morales

Generally the boxer-puncher does well against pure boxers since they can often match hand speed, and possess the skill to eventually catch there elusive opponents with their harder punches. In my opinion, Kostya Tszyu at his best would beat Floyd Mayweather at 140. They also seem to have less trouble with swarmers than pure boxers since their greater power discourages much of the swarmers aggression, but are less successful against big sluggers since they often lack the defense or mobility of the boxing stylist

All in all the "boxer-puncher" historically, and giving specific examples (which I can't be bothered to at the moment) is the most successful allaround and most of the best fighters in history are boxer-punchers

Many fighters are not so easily classified, those that are "unorthodox" like Chris Eubank are so named because they do not fit the proto-type of one of the classical styles and may lack some of their ability as a long-range boxer, an inside fighter, or in punching technique. Many of those mentioned such as Ray Robinson are versatile enough to adapt to more than one style. Not all boxers can be lumped into one category, but the style that a fighter chooses does offer an advantage or dis-advantage against a particular opponent

**limecush** · 08-23-2007, 08:04 PM

Not all fighters can adjust.Some fighters are only 1 dimensional.Have you ever seen pac man box his way to a UD with his slick moves and ring mastery?

everyfighter knows what to expect when he is preparing for a fight. HE knows what STYLE to prepare for.So how dont style make fights?

ex.MArg vs willaims. We all know thier styles it was going to be a work out match.who prettty much had the most stamina and keep swingin.Williams knew what style to prepare for he knew all he had to do was out work Marg style.

IF a brawler goes into a fight with another brawler..your saying they are going to adjust?HOW when their style is pure brawl and fight.

To me Styles make FIghts and how well the fighter is welling to Adjust if he is talented enough.

**Fox McCloud** · 08-23-2007, 08:08 PM

I'll be the first to say that I don't think Floyd is a pure boxer like he is listed above... I think he is fast, and uses what they call "boxing and moving," but he really doesn't stick to the boxing textbook style that "pure boxers" do. For example, he almost never jabs.

Anyways, I agree 100% that styles do generally give one fighter the advantage over the other, but there is always an exception to the rule.

Good boxers always beat good punchers, yet...

Ricardo Mayorga is 2-0 against Vernon Forrest.

Also I would be interested if someone could put Marco Antonio Barrera into one of those categories. Barrera is the only fighter I have ever seen that can adjust to fight with whatever style he wants. He can box, brawl, swarm, punch, move, whatever, it's incredible. So if that is the case that every style can be beaten by another style, than Barrera should never lose a fight, because he can always fight in the manner that would counter his next opponent's fighting style.

**Tysonisgod** · 08-23-2007, 08:14 PM

what style would you put tyson in

**Orange Sneakers** · 08-23-2007, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Tysonisgod

what style would you put tyson in

Swarmer, just a more powerful one at a slower pace

**squealpiggy** · 08-23-2007, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Tysonisgod

what style would you put tyson in

Puncher-swarmer rather like Smokin Joe.

**Orange Sneakers** · 08-23-2007, 08:19 PM

Thinking about it, Nigel Benn was a Swarmer in his slugging days (if you're still with me)

Styles DON'T make fights