Clearing up a HUGE Tyson falsehood....

[cupcrazy01]

Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for that Lipsey win, IMO. Good stuff here, thanks Iceman.

[BORIQUA POWER]

Hopkins doesn't get enough credit for that Lipsey win, IMO. Good stuff here, thanks Iceman.

Yeah, actually Hopkins beat at least five former very good amateurs in Adam Garland, Dennis Milton, Roy Richie, Randy Smith and Lipsey. Milton was the MAN at 156 pounds back in the early 80's along with Frank Tate and Adam Garland was a very highly ranked an accomplished amateur 165 pounder in the mid-80's. Smith was the 165 pound runner up at the 1980 U.S. Olympic Trials

[DarkSpyder]

Aye...equally stunning as Scullys use of caps a bold font. Stunning to my eyes...

LOL

But yeah it is fascinating. But the question really is Iceman, is the gap between the amateur and professional competition level that large? It seems that most solid pros have also enjoyed thorough, successful amateur careers, with only a few exceptions. Case in point- I have heard on numerous occasions (i.e. from Lennox Lewis) that the reason that the Eastern Europeans have taken over the Heavyweight division is because of their extensive amateur careers, when the experience has translated successfully to the pros.

Clearly in Mexico (and possibly most of Latin America) they fight professionally from a young age anyway and are able to because of the predominantly diminutive size of the fighters, but this seems to be a one-off.

Thoughts?

[squealpiggy]

The Eastern Europeans were forbidden from being professional athletes under communism, where all sport was considered to be an amateur endeavour. Now that the shackles are off they are making their presence felt in the pro ranks.

[demirturk]

and i ****ing tought i knew boxing , i cant compete with the americans

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

[QUOTE=DarkSpyder;2533682]LOL But yeah it is fascinating. But the question really is Iceman, is the gap between the amateur and professional competition level that large? It seems that most solid pros have also enjoyed thorough, successful amateur careers, with only a few exceptions.QUOTE]

Well, I put it this way in regard to myself and my own experiences: I fought quite a few top rated national and world class amateurs when I was an amateur and I fought in so many tournaments on the national level...sometimes we fought 2 and 3 times in a night.... 5 times in a week.... 2 tournaments in a month, etc....If I had the same number of amateur fights but didnt have them on the national and international level...I not only don't think I would have went as far as I did when I fought pro but I don't think I would have even had the confidence to turn professional in the first place.

[PunchDrunk]

Let me clarify one thing for people right now... .because this is one of boxing BIGGEST myths ever...saying that Tyson wasnt a good amateur, using him as an example of someone who wasnt a top amateur but went on to a goo pro career. Take him OFF that list because Mike Tyson was not only a TOP amateur but he also destroyed many OTHER top amateurs. This argument is a VERY CLEAR example of someone that takes something they HEAR and passing it off to others as fact....it has snowballed into something totally false. Tyson won the Ohio State Fair twice, won the National Junior Olympics twice and won both the National Golden Gloves and the U.S. Juniors one time each. He represented the USA successfull yin International competition and he was chosen as the "most noteworthy contender" in 1984 to Henry Tillman and that qualified him for the Olympic Box-Off where he lost to Tillman for the Olympic spot. Being the most noteworthy is a HUGE honor in amateur boxing and is reserved for the elite at the time, which tyson certainly was at 201 pounds in this country.

I just want to point out, that I was making the same argument you are... Anyway, I just went with the 24-3 record for Tyson because that is what was said earlier in that thread. If that is wrong, what was his actual am record?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

His amateur reord is pretty unclear (my list of some of his titles won is factual, though, trust me) BUT I can account for 5 losses I think. I will let u know tomorrow when I have time to post more, etc

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

FROM MY BOOK:

"Tyson was a two-time National Junior Olympic Champion, a National Golden Gloves Champion (1984) and a two-time Ohio State Fair champion (in 1982 and 1983) and on the way to these and other titles he defeated stand out, ranked amateur boxers such as Jonathon Littles (twice by stoppage), Jerry Goff, Kilbert Pierce, Derek Isaman, Orbit Pough, Warren Thompson, Avery Rawls, Olian Alexander, Henry Milligan, and Winston Bent (He stopped Littles, Pough, Goff and Milligan)."

[squealpiggy]

FROM MY BOOK:

"Tyson was a two-time National Junior Olympic Champion, a National Golden Gloves Champion (1984) and a two-time Ohio State Fair champion (in 1982 and 1983) and on the way to these and other titles he defeated stand out, ranked amateur boxers such as Jonathon Littles (twice by stoppage), Jerry Goff, Kilbert Pierce, Derek Isaman, Orbit Pough, Warren Thompson, Avery Rawls, Olian Alexander, Henry Milligan, and Winston Bent (He stopped Littles, Pough, Goff and Milligan)."

You have a book?