What is "skill" anyway?

[kayjay]

A lot of times a fighter is lauded for having "skill," though it's not always clear this means anything at all. Another poster (Optimus Wolf) rightly pointed out in another thread that the word is often used on here as a substitute for speed and flash. In that case it's at the least a poor word choice, and more likely it also represents a terrible misunderstanding of some basic things about boxing. If, to use the example Wolf was discussing, Judah is more 'skilled' than Cotto, what could this possibly mean? Judah doesn't throw a better vareity of punches, doesn't throw them in a cleaner, more consistent fashion. Cotto beats him there. Judah doesn't set up his punches better, in fact as fast as his left is, he doesn't work it off his jab or right hook very well at all. What do people mean, then, if not simply he's FASTER?

For my part I think the word is at its best a vague abstraction that has little use in boxing discussions. At the very least you should specify what you mean by this (ways of setting punches up, timing them, throwing them at angles, defensive strategies [specific ones!]), which is rarely done.

NOTE: This thread is NOT about Cotto and Judah; that was just an example. If you disagree with what I said about the example please DO NOT make that the basis of your reply.

[LemonChiff]

Developed technique and ability. Technique and effectiveness.

[kayjay]

Developed technique and ability. Technique and effectiveness.

Ok, 'technique' is less of an abstraction, but if you take the case in question, I wouldn't say Judah punches with better technique than Cotto. Yet he is supposedly more 'skilled'.

[OptimusWolf]

I think for a start, defensive skills and offensive skills can be pretty much separated. Guys like Toney and Floyd are undoubted defensive technicians.

I think attacking skills are a lot harder to pinpoint. I guess it is a mixture of footwork to get in position, hand speed and accuracy to connect, combinations to set up power shots, and good throwing form and timing to maximise the power of shots.

Too often I hear people carp on about skillz when they simply mean fast hands. Tszyu vs Judah was the example I originally referred to a few weeks back. I'd like someone to convince me that Judah is more skilled than Tszyu was, rather than just faster.

[fluent2332]

just watch an older james toney fight, you'll see skills

[LemonChiff]

Ok, 'technique' is less of an abstraction, but if you take the case in question, I wouldn't say Judah punches with better technique than Cotto. Yet he is supposedly more 'skilled'.

Judah is more talented than Cotto. I wouldn't say he's more skilled

[kayjay]

just watch an older james toney fight, you'll see skills

I'll see good boxing.

But 'skills' is supposed to apply to any- and everyone. But no one boxer can serve as a template for other boxers. It's not as if other guys should try to fight like Toney, as if that would make them more skilled.

Plus there are a lot of things that Toney doesn't do well that should also count as 'skills' if this word is to make any sense.

[Bogler]

skills are nothing w/o heart and courage. one may have limited skills but if he perfects these every effectively, then id take that against one who have more but less effective skills.

take the case of pacman's fight w/ barrera morales and jmm. obviously these 3 have way more skills than pac, as most of you would like to say. but what happened. and to think pac is still peaking, scary eh? yeah im nuthugging at the moment.

[owenrock69]

floyd isnt really a good defensive technician, floyd just hasnt had an opponent that is great at cutting off a ring , I guarantee you put him in a ring with a cuy like cotto and mayweather is looking at the lights from his back

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Judah is more talented than Cotto. I wouldn't say he's more skilled

I dissagree, I think Judah is more naturaly talented and skilled than Cotto but that doesn't always wins you fights. Not to be cliche' but there are other intagibles that make a big difference in a fight. Heart, stamina, chin are some to name a few that aren't necessarily attributed to "skill". A guy can be faster or crisper with his punches or have much better combinations, doesn't mean he will win the fight.

Gatti is a great example of a fighter that has more heart than skill. Not to say he isn't skilled because he is a pro fighter but he has won alot of fights with his heart and chin against opponents that are more "skilled" than him.