Who Is The Best Defensive fighter EVER?

[realheavyhands]

Roy was a lot like Pep? How so?

If anyone, I think Floyd resembles Pep's style more than anyone.

they moved the same around the ring alot of the same moves.. floyd doesnt move that much.. floyd might be a puncher that doesnt know how to punch yet becuase he kinda looks like toney at times.. but toney is a way better puncher... floyd is like a in shape toney with out the right hand

[oldgringo]

I'll admit I'm an RJJ hater. Yeah Toney and Hopkins both really couldn't find him. But who else did he fight that was even remotely dangerous? When he was at his peak he had good reflex D but who knows what would have happened if he had fought some better opponents.

To be fair, he did fight some other very capable, skilled boxers like Reggie Johnson and Eric Harding. Montell Griffin was a good fighter for awhile and Virgil Hill is a potential hall of famer. After that you have a lot of middling sorts and a HOF, yet past his prime Mike McCallum in there...

[deliveryman]

they moved the same around the ring alot of the same moves.. floyd doesnt move that much.. floyd might be a puncher that doesnt know how to punch yet becuase he kinda looks like toney at times.. but toney is a way better puncher... floyd is like a in shape toney with out the right hand

Wow, coming from a notorious Floyd hater.

How many times must you contradict yourself?

[amagnin]

To be fair, he did fight some other very capable, skilled boxers like Reggie Johnson and Eric Harding. Montell Griffin was a good fighter for awhile and Virgil Hill is a potential hall of famer. After that you have a lot of middling sorts and a HOF, yet past his prime Mike McCallum in there...

Fair points. Harding, Johnson, Griffin, Hill, and McCallum are all good opponents. But I didn't articulate my point as well. Has RJJ really fought a good/great offensive fighter to show off his defense. Sure Toney and Hopkins are both excellent fighters but neither are really known for their offense.

[deliveryman]

We know Zab faded in that fight. Look at the first 5 rounds and you'll see PBF get hit with more clean shots than RJJ was hit with in an entire fight (Pre-Ruiz).

I'm not saying that PBF isn't a great defensive fighter. I'm just saying he is not as good as RJJ.

The compubox numbers in the first 4 rounds for Judah are virtually the same as the last 8 rounds, the only difference being Mayweather's percentage drastically increased the last 8 rounds, and Judah's dropped slightly, (about 5%).

Like I said, the first 4 rounds were pretty uneventful, the the exception of 2 punches that basically won Judah those rounds. A straight left, and a right hook. Other than that, he landed pretty much nothing, but Floyd didn't land much either, which is why most had Judah winning after 4 rounds.

The numbers after 4 rounds:

Mayweather: 22%
Judah: 23%

For the entire fight:

Mayweather: 46%
Judah 18%

But what irks me the most is that you actually have the nerve to compare a SLOW-ASS HEAVYWEIGHT in John Ruiz, to probably the fastest (if not, one of) punchers in the sport, in Zab Judah.

I don't care what you say, to keep a superfast puncher like Judah at 18% for an entire fight is quite an accomplishment.

Even the rounds Judah was winning, he was only landing at 23%, so again I really don't know where you're getting this from.

[oldgringo]

Fair points. Harding, Johnson, Griffin, Hill, and McCallum are all good opponents. But I didn't articulate my point as well. Has RJJ really fought a good/great offensive fighter to show off his defense. Sure Toney and Hopkins are both excellent fighters but neither are really known for their offense.

One could argue that Toney was weight drained and Hopkins was inexperienced as well.

Roy's offense definitely helped his defensive purposes. Nobody he faced wanted to be hit with that blinding speed and powerful punch so that discouraged them a bit. Glen Johnson wouldn't have gotten away with bull rushing Roy like he did if that fight took place several years ago. Roy would have carved him up bad with his reflexes and hand speed.

I wouldn't rate Roy as being one of the best defensive fighters ever, as he made a ton of technical errors that you don't see a lot of other great defenders make. Roy could get away with it though.

[amagnin]

One could argue that Toney was weight drained and Hopkins was inexperienced as well.

Roy's offense definitely helped his defensive purposes. Nobody he faced wanted to be hit with that blinding speed and powerful punch so that discouraged them a bit. Glen Johnson wouldn't have gotten away with bull rushing Roy like he did if that fight took place several years ago. Roy would have carved him up bad with his reflexes and hand speed.

I wouldn't rate Roy as being one of the best defensive fighters ever, as he made a ton of technical errors that you don't see a lot of other great defenders make. Roy could get away with it though.

I think we agree then that he was a tremendously talented defensive fighter but he was NOT the greatest of all time or even our era.

[oldgringo]

I think we agree then that he was a tremendously talented defensive fighter but he was NOT the greatest of all time or even our era.

Agreed sir.

[Left2body]

The compubox numbers in the first 4 rounds for Judah are virtually the same as the last 8 rounds, the only difference being Mayweather's percentage drastically increased the last 8 rounds, and Judah's dropped slightly, (about 5%).

Like I said, the first 4 rounds were pretty uneventful, the the exception of 2 punches that basically won Judah those rounds. A straight left, and a right hook. Other than that, he landed pretty much nothing, but Floyd didn't land much either, which is why most had Judah winning after 4 rounds.

The numbers after 4 rounds:

Mayweather: 22%
Judah: 23%

For the entire fight:

Mayweather: 46%
Judah 18%

But what irks me the most is that you actually have the nerve to compare a SLOW-ASS HEAVYWEIGHT in John Ruiz, to probably the fastest (if not, one of) punchers in the sport, in Zab Judah.

I don't care what you say, to keep a superfast puncher like Judah at 18% for an entire fight is quite an accomplishment.

Even the rounds Judah was winning, he was only landing at 23%, so again I really don't know where you're getting this from.

How the hell are you irked? I never mentioned Ruiz.......ROFL. I said (pre-Ruiz). Do some reading comprehension. I was making a distinction to the RJJ before he went up to fight Ruiz. Which is prime RJJ.

You know what Irks me....people who dont fully read a post.


Judah landed 36.4% of his power shots. The 8.2% jab connect makes his total percentage deceiving. Zab was landing at about 40% power punch connect rate in the first 4 rounds.

Did Judah land a lot......no but. But no one ever landed like that against RJJ. Look at RJJ best opponents.......Toney, Hopkins

[ben41193]

I say it is willie pep or pernell whitiker. It is between the two of them but if i had too pick between them id go with willie pep.