The Runner, The Hugger & The Slapper

[.Mik.]

I've thought about this quite a bit lately due to my increased and often frustrating visits to this forum.

There can be no real doubt that these boxing 'faults' have become more evident in the following boxers over their past few fights:

Floyd Mayweather - Runner.
Ricky Hatton - Hugger.
Joe Calzaghe - Slapper.

Now, in those three fighters we probably also have the three most commonly posted-about boxers on these forums. And also the ones that split opinions the most. People who like Hatton and Calzaghe tend not to be the biggest PBF fans. The PBF fans tend to hate Hatton and for whatever reason seem happy to throw insults towards Calzaghe simply because they share nationality. Alternatively its quite clear at times that PBF is seen as the benchmark of American quality, thus he stirs up quite a bit of patriotism, which is then used to attack Hatton and Calzaghe...and vice-versa of course. This is all a generalism of course, but generalisms are general statements and I am speaking generally.

So what we get is that we have 3 top 10 P4P fighters, so are all of a proven quality. Similarly they are all undefeated. They are all champions. It is arguable that none of them have faced the truly top quality (Tszyu was too old, Lacy was too green, DLH was past his best) opponents. Similarly each of them have this 'boxing flaw' that they are often criticised for.

So I have a number of questions around this. A) Why are they criticised for it? B) Why arent they all criticised equally for it? C) How can you possibly criticse some and not others?

Here is my take on it. Mayweather and Hatton both employ a spoiling tactic to neutralise the threat of their opponent. Running and Hugging are both viewed with disparagement because they lower the entertainment quality of the fight for the audience. But at the end of the day, it makes them win. If Mayweather were to stand and trade with fighters like DLH, its not working to his skill-set, its not boxing using his strengths, he would not be unbeaten. Hatton's bulldozer style means that he leaves himself open to some big shots, had he not stayed so tight to Tszyu, landing his own shots and then hugging for a break and to stop Tszyu from throwing his best shots, then he also may not have won and may have been knocked out. So can we really criticse them for doing what they need to do to get the win? Cos as far as I'm concerned, if we do, then we have to criticse them both for it. Personally, I dont think that I'll hold it against either of them. Winning all your fights is impressive.

Now, moving on to slapping, this to me is a different case. Calzaghe is still winning all of his fights, he's still scoring plenty of knockdowns, he's still stopping the vast majority of his punches, so I cant really see why he is criticised for not punching as clean as some other fighters. Calling him a slapper just makes more fighters look bad by getting stopped by him. It doesnt take away from the quality of his fights, it doesnt take away from his performance, it doesnt stop him from winning. So what is the problem? In Calzaghe's case, it just seems to me like desperate scratching to find a chi-nk (ridiculous that such a common word is caught by the autocensor) in the armour of someone who beat the big up-and-coming American hype.

I agree that all of these fighters should be criticised for not taking as many big and difficult fights as they should. But thinking about it, I honestly cant see how Running, Hugging or Slapping should be held against them.

[Parody]

I've thought about this quite a bit lately due to my increased and often frustrating visits to this forum.

There can be no real doubt that these boxing 'faults' have become more evident in the following boxers over their past few fights:

Floyd Mayweather - Runner.
Ricky Hatton - Hugger.
Joe Calzaghe - Slapper.

Now, in those three fighters we probably also have the three most commonly posted-about boxers on these forums. And also the ones that split opinions the most. People who like Hatton and Calzaghe tend not to be the biggest PBF fans. The PBF fans tend to hate Hatton and for whatever reason seem happy to throw insults towards Calzaghe simply because they share nationality. Alternatively its quite clear at times that PBF is seen as the benchmark of American quality, thus he stirs up quite a bit of patriotism, which is then used to attack Hatton and Calzaghe...and vice-versa of course. This is all a generalism of course, but generalisms are general statements and I am speaking generally.

So what we get is that we have 3 top 10 P4P fighters, so are all of a proven quality. Similarly they are all undefeated. They are all champions. It is arguable that none of them have faced the truly top quality (Tszyu was too old, Lacy was too green, DLH was past his best) opponents. Similarly each of them have this 'boxing flaw' that they are often criticised for.

So I have a number of questions around this. A) Why are they criticised for it? B) Why arent they all criticised equally for it? C) How can you possibly criticse some and not others?

Here is my take on it. Mayweather and Hatton both employ a spoiling tactic to neutralise the threat of their opponent. Running and Hugging are both viewed with disparagement because they lower the entertainment quality of the fight for the audience. But at the end of the day, it makes them win. If Mayweather were to stand and trade with fighters like DLH, its not working to his skill-set, its not boxing using his strengths, he would not be unbeaten. Hatton's bulldozer style means that he leaves himself open to some big shots, had he not stayed so tight to Tszyu, landing his own shots and then hugging for a break and to stop Tszyu from throwing his best shots, then he also may not have won and may have been knocked out. So can we really criticse them for doing what they need to do to get the win? Cos as far as I'm concerned, if we do, then we have to criticse them both for it. Personally, I dont think that I'll hold it against either of them. Winning all your fights is impressive.

Now, moving on to slapping, this to me is a different case. Calzaghe is still winning all of his fights, he's still scoring plenty of knockdowns, he's still stopping the vast majority of his punches, so I cant really see why he is criticised for not punching as clean as some other fighters. Calling him a slapper just makes more fighters look bad by getting stopped by him. It doesnt take away from the quality of his fights, it doesnt take away from his performance, it doesnt stop him from winning. So what is the problem? In Calzaghe's case, it just seems to me like desperate scratching to find a chi-nk (ridiculous that such a common word is caught by the autocensor) in the armour of someone who beat the big up-and-coming American hype.

I agree that all of these fighters should be criticised for not taking as many big and difficult fights as they should. But thinking about it, I honestly cant see how Running, Hugging or Slapping should be held against them.

I have no clue how you can even compare Hatton and Calzaghe's opposition to PBF.

[.Mik.]

You seemed to have entirely missed the point.

It is a fairly popular opinion that NONE of them have fought the truly top guys. That is the only comparison I've made of their opposition. Hatton is the only one who has fought someone who was in the P4P top 10 list. Mayweather has undoubtedly fought more fighters of higher quality, but very few who were at their prime. Calzaghe has fought lots of people who were later considered to be overhyped after he'd defeated them.

[spinksjinx]

Last time I checked

De La Hoya
Baldomir
Judah
Corley
Castillo
Sosa
Hernandez
Chavez
Corrales
Manfredy

Were all respect top guys...I left out other notables but these were top 5 caliber guys in their respected divisions...Hattons and Calzaghes claim to fame come from Lacy and Tszyu...Thats it.

[.Mik.]

Again...the quality of fighters the three have faced is not the point of the thread at all. It is a very minor comparison and is a common complaint of all 3 fighters, as is the three 'boxing faults' mentioned in the title of this thread.

[eazy_mas]

Calzaghe slaps because he got a broken hand which he injured it and that was his near reitirment but he contiunes

Mayweather is called running simply because that is part of boxing is to move away and hit without been hit, the hatry extend to saying his running but forgot what hopkins and other boxing guru used to do. If you have a weapon you are going to use it and Mayweather has speed and using it effectively. If someone is a powerful he will use his power to bully or KO hs oppenet so it the same for every fighter. and he only got a small square to move around

as for Hatton I seen pre-Tszyu fight yes he won but the fight was faustrating to watch because he kept clinching and stayed there for long time. Hatton is clinching more but the ref didnt say anything about it but he is also lossing his fan

and the one thing in common with these 3 fighters is that they are undeafted

[lennon]

wlad would be the honourary hugging champion, Hatton doesnt hug he more smothers his opponents, wlad locks off his arms around his opponents on the inside and leans down on their back.

[.Mik.]

Calzaghe slaps because he got a broken hand which he injured it and that was his near reitirment but he contiunes

Mayweather is called running simply because that is part of boxing is to move away and hit without been hit, the hatry extend to saying his running but forgot what hopkins and other boxing guru used to do. If you have a weapon you are going to use it and Mayweather has speed and using it effectively. If someone is a powerful he will use his power to bully or KO hs oppenet so it the same for every fighter. and he only got a small square to move around

as for Hatton I seen pre-Tszyu fight yes he won but the fight was faustrating to watch because he kept clinching and stayed there for long time. Hatton is clinching more but the ref didnt say anything about it but he is also lossing his fan

Many fight fans claim that Mayweather's running is frustrating to watch. Many of his opponents seem to be claiming that too. That there would be no fight had they not chased PBF down because he wasnt making any fight.

I think that the two situations are pretty comparable. Not so sure about Calzaghe's.

[Bad Intentions]

damn the runner the hugger and slapper are all undefeated, hows that possible?

they are all talented get off theyer nutz

[.Mik.]

damn the runner the hugger and slapper are all undefeated, hows that possible?

they are all talented get off theyer nutz

Um...indeed. Thats what I'm saying, so I hope your post isnt in reference to me.

They are obviously doing what they need to do to win, so you either criticise all, or none. Personally, I'm going to go for the latter.

Criticise them for other things, sure, but quit with the 'Hugman Hatton' and 'Calslappy' labels. Interesting how Floyd doesnt have such a nickname as far as I'm away.